Time travel thread!
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Re: Time travel thread!
Posted by Leperous on Fri Feb 13th at 2:45pm 2004


So lets have some completely inoffensive thoughts on what time is, and if time travel is possible (I'll chip in later on)





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Re: Time travel thread!
Posted by Kapten Ljusdal on Fri Feb 13th at 2:46pm 2004


Timetravel is silly

[addsig]




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Re: Time travel thread!
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Feb 13th at 3:01pm 2004


*que twilight zone music*

didn't we touch this subject recently..

i have my thoughts, but am in a rush this morning.. i look forward to the replies though.. this is immensely more to my liking than .. well anywho's

[addsig]




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Re: Time travel thread!
Posted by Monqui on Fri Feb 13th at 3:48pm 2004


I have two schools of thought in regard to the whole time travel issue- one that I use to quantify "time" and one that I use to think about time travel (oh- and I really don't believe time travel is possible- I just like to think about it)...

First, let me just state where I stand on time itself. I view "time" as nothing more than the act of motion in the universe. So, theoretically, if all motion were to cease in the universe, then there would be no concept of time, as such. You can also derive that time is then based on the fastest moving item in the universe at any one time, since it would set the standard for motion (if that makes sense...)

But, as for time travel, in my system it doesn't really work. But I have thought about the little nuances of it since the idea of time travel is very appealing to me.

So, assuming that you could "go back in time," what ramifications would that have on the rest of the world? I'll tell you what I think would happen using probably the most famous time paradox- what if you kill your grandfather before he sire's your father.

One thing that you have to keep in mind is the "natural" flow of time for us. We percieve "time" as only moving forward, and for all we know it only affects us moving forward. So, keeping that in mind, I think this would happen:

You're born in the year 1980, and when you turn 30, you somehow find a way to travel back in time, and decide to off your grandfather. You appear, through means unknown, back in 1920. You Shoot/Stab your gramps. Your grandfather would die then, and be dead for good, and the question comes up about what happens to YOU. I think that you would then cease to exist (since you would have no way to be born later on). But, time would not reverse itself and remove the bullet/knife from your grandpa, so he would stay dead. It doesn't make much sense to me to think about a "sentient" time that will effectively negate any problems that come up within it (i.e. you killing your grandfather, but then you never existing to kill your grandfather, so your grandfather still lives, but then you still live to kill your grandfather and so on and so forth.)

From my experience, the universe, with very, very few exceptions follows one simple rule- always follow the path of least resistance. The idea of "time" flowing backwards to fix some error seems like it breaks that rule.

? quote:

So lets have some completely inoffensive thoughts on what time is, and if time travel is possible (I'll chip in later on)


[whimsical blue color to infer that I'm being sarcastic]
Oh, and you're a douche.
[/whimsical blue color to infer that I'm being sarcastic]

I had to say something offensive... Sorry. [addsig]




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Re: Time travel thread!
Posted by Gav on Fri Feb 13th at 3:57pm 2004


If time travel were possible wouldn't WWI, WWII or any other major war have been averted/changed?

Or has it been already, how would we know?

[addsig]




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Re: Time travel thread!
Posted by Crono on Fri Feb 13th at 4:01pm 2004


Well, if you look at time travel, from a logical point of view, it's basically impossible, unless you want to go forward.

The meaning of TIME is a measurment tool so that we can measure the distance from moment to the next and so we can archive things that have taken place. Time is not like length, it simply doesn't truely exist, it is a man made concept.

The only way you could travel through time, going forward, would be if we were able to travel at the speed of light (Also impossible because the close you get to the speed of light, if you have mass, the heavier you become, and at the speed of light mass is infinite . . . thus only light can go the speed of light). Essentially you'd get into a space ship, go about 14million miles an our (however much it takes to get out of the 9.8gs) and go the speed of light in some direction, count the light years you've traveled (as to you it would seem instantanious) then return. When you returned you would have knowledge of leaving and then suddenly you were entering the atmosphere again. Measure the distance you went (not displacement) in light years, and that's how much later it would be.
Now, traveling back in time . . . yeah, I don't think so, even as impossible as the last rant sounded, this one is freakin' nuts!
The only one I've heard that actually makes sense is going into some dimension of sub-space somehow, simply because it's theorised that time is a physical entity, which it isn't.
Also, think about this, you're not the only person/thing effected, so would you really want to in fear of f**king the entire universe up? Now, I'm not saying humans have that much power (yet lol) but there's so many factors it would make your head spin.


So, no, I don't think so. But, it does give a nice premise for fictional story lines [addsig]




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Re: Time travel thread!
Posted by Leperous on Fri Feb 13th at 4:29pm 2004


But Monqui, the past happens before the future, if your grandfather was killed then that would happen before you could travel back in time. I think your idea has a flaw in it though- the past will somehow 'know' that you are a consequence of your grandfather living, before the future with you in it has happened, and that information will have to instantaneously travel back in time to the moment you change the past.

Think about this then- what would happen if someone came back in time to now, and killed one of your friends because they were their grandfather..?





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Re: Time travel thread!
Posted by Gollum on Fri Feb 13th at 4:33pm 2004


I'm too busy to discuss this interesting topic now, but hopefully I'll get the chance a little earlier on



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Re: Time travel thread!
Posted by Monqui on Fri Feb 13th at 4:34pm 2004


Then poor Andrew would be lying in a pool of blood with a knife sticking through his back, and I would be all "wtf."

Think about *this*- when YOU travel back in time, you take your place AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME. Until you go back, you exist only at those points in the "past." So you would kill gramps, and then cease to exist- but why would "time" go backwars a few seconds to remove the knife? [addsig]




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Re: Time travel thread!
Posted by matt on Fri Feb 13th at 4:43pm 2004


"The vulcan minister for Science has stated time travel to be inpossible" - Topal

I can't concieve time travel being possible, but what do I know?

[addsig]




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Re: Time travel thread!
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Fri Feb 13th at 7:53pm 2004


Traveling foraward is completly possible. you do not have to travel at the speed of light, merely at a significant fraction of c. it's called the twins paradox...

Time is not simply a man-made concept. in fact, it is thought that time and space are effectivly the same thing, and possibly that they are both qunatized much like energy, momentum...ect. I do not know the particulars of relativity, quantum-loop gravity, string theory, or any similar cosmological theory which might apply to this topic. However, I have heard theories that backwards time-trevel might be possible through a whormhole. since this is effectivly a connection between two points in space-time it ought to be possible to connect any two arbatraty points. this is the only theoreticaly reputable theory for backewards time travel I have ever encountered.

The paradox Monqui brings up is one I have often considered. I believe that it would be impossible to go back in time for any specific purpose. say I wanted to go back in time and kill Hitler in 1920 when he was probably still recovering form his service in WWI. I could conciveably do that, but once I had, where would the motivation be for my going back in the first place? after all, if WWII never happend, if I hjad never heard of Adolf Hitler, I couldn't very well have the motivation to go back in time and kill him could I?

this situation creates an infinite loop. who knows, myabe if someone does this it destroys the universe Maybe we are all cought in a cyclical loop of this sort. eseentialy there is no way to say what would happen.

[addsig]




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Re: Time travel thread!
Posted by Edge Damodred on Fri Feb 13th at 7:53pm 2004


Time is simply a way for everything to not happen at once. If the big bang is really what started the universe, than everything that was, is and will be was inside that and everything existed at once. So when all that exploded and everything started moving out, time keeps all existance from existing at once. And this time it's not 4:45am. This time I just woke up 20 minutes before. [addsig]



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Re: Time travel thread!
Posted by fishy on Fri Feb 13th at 8:11pm 2004


only if it's possibility has been written into the program.





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Re: Time travel thread!
Posted by R@lph VViggum on Fri Feb 13th at 9:02pm 2004


http://www.johntitor.com/

Either someone has no life and is a good hoaxer or were kinda all screwed.

[addsig]




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Re: Time travel thread!
Posted by 2dmin on Fri Feb 13th at 9:15pm 2004


  • ? quote:
    Posted by Leperous

      I think your idea has a flaw in it though- the past will somehow \'know\' that you are a consequence of your grandfather living, before the future with you in it has happened, and that information will have to instantaneously travel back in time to the moment you change the past.

    haha. the old debate of \"information\" ... what is information?

    heres another paradoxx, which involves travelling into the future (seeing as going back to the past is, proven beyond reasonable doubt, impossible) -

    A proffessor builds a time machine in the year 2005, and decides to go forward (no problem here) to 2010. When he arrives, he seeks out the university library and browses through the current journals. In the mathematics section he notices a splendid new theorem, and jots down the details. Then he returns to 2005, (by going back along the wormhole he created in 2005. travelling \"back\" in time is only possible [at least, using the wormhole theorem, which is one of the best theories for travelling forward - problem is it needs about as much energy as there is in the universe to keep it open for 5 years ] after the wormhole has been built, ie if he build the wormhole in 2005 he cant go back further than that.) summons a clever student, and outlines the theorem. The student goes away, tidies up the arguement, writes a paper, and publishes it in a mathematics journal. It was, of course, in this very journal that the professor read the paper in 2010.

    This isn\'t strictly a paradoxx, but more a really weird state of affairs. The problem isn\'t of time resolving itself (with the grandpa paradoxx) but there is one problem.

    WHERE DID THE INFORMATION COME FROM??





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    Re: Time travel thread!
    Posted by 2dmin on Fri Feb 13th at 9:24pm 2004


    ? posted by R@lph VViggum

    http://www.johntitor.com/

    Either someone has no life and is a good hoaxer or were kinda all screwed.

    well, if this is real i cant wait til 2036 . that is, if this john titor guy hasn't accidentally created a paradoxx by telling ppl about time travel and making time travel never be invented.

    but if this john titor IS real, he seems to be the only "open" time traveller so far seen. does this mean hes breaking some law of the future that youre not allowed to go back in time unless you keep down?

    hehe its probably a hoax, but if it IS real ...

    [addsig]




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    Re: Time travel thread!
    Posted by R@lph VViggum on Fri Feb 13th at 10:18pm 2004


    Well, I remember reading that he said there are an infinite amount of worldlines. He has traveled back on a different one then his but very similar to the oringal with the exceptions of like some books note getting published etc. So it really wouldn't matter if you were to kill your grandfather. He also mentions in some IRC logs that he is staying with his parents and "him" at age 2.

    [addsig]




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    Re: Time travel thread!
    Posted by Crono on Fri Feb 13th at 10:47pm 2004


    ? quote:
    ? posted by 2dmin

    hehe its probably a hoax, but if it IS real ...


    Then he'll be the only hope for our universe when the brain spawn come and attack us, his superior yet inferior mind will enable him to fend off the attacking brain waves of the delta quadrant. Him being his own grandfather and all.

    lol. [addsig]




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    Re: Time travel thread!
    Posted by Bewbies on Fri Feb 13th at 10:50pm 2004


    bwahahaha what would the world be like without futurama? [addsig]



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    Re: Time travel thread!
    Posted by Dr Brasso on Fri Feb 13th at 11:08pm 2004


    well, i must say that mr titor makes for a very interesting read.....not insomuch as a "realistic theory", but as a somewhat beneficial "wakeup call" to get our s**t together....something that deep in our hearts and minds, we really already know...at one point he says hes sad because we dont see the signposts....i'd have to agree with that. its worth noting that much of what he "said" is in actuality, the logical outcome of an existance of turning a blind eye....i dont know s**t about global warming, but just being out in the sunshine for a few years, ive noticed changes on my own....things such as genetic hybrid plantlife etc; now we all know that this is not really "natural", despite what we tell ourselves, but we continue to do exactly what we know is not good. sucking the planet dry.....building an h bomb, followed by an "a" bomb....and countless other examples....

    as hard to swallow as this piece is, i think it serves as a good reminder of our place in the universe...

    we dont really amount to dry s**t, in the big picture....
    but its the only one we have....

    Doc Brass...






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