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Clock Speed?
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 Re: Clock Speed?
Posted by sde on Sat Feb 21st at 9:11pm 2004

Right...
I'm using an Intel SpeedStep Pentium 4 Processor on my laptop, and up until now it has always said that it can only go up to 1.7gHz. However, I just ran the Dell System Analyser, and it claims that my "Maximum Clock Speed" was 2200mHz?! At first I didn't believe it, thinking the clock speed was something different, but it said that the current clock speed was 1200mHz, something which can be confirmed as the alleged "processor speed" through a check of the system specs. Is this extra speed just a load of rubbish, or can I reach it - with or without overclocking?

Any help would be appreciated Thankyou!





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 Re: Clock Speed?
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Feb 21st at 9:15pm 2004

more than likely, it means that if you bought a 2200 MHZ microprocessor, you wouldnt have to alter the bios settings or jumpers.. it would just be a 2200 by plugging in the new chip.

/ 2 cents

[addsig]



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 Re: Clock Speed?
Posted by Crono on Sat Feb 21st at 9:44pm 2004

well, Orph is kinda right, but there's more to it.

Most processors default at a certain speed because you need to synch them up to your FBS frequency (you can do this by going to your board manufactuer site and they should have a listing of compatible frequencies).

Now, those change the speed, that is essentially overclocking. But, you can overclock it moreso to the speeds that are being read out that your processor can go, but be forewarned, if your fan isn't spinning fast enough or your heatsink is a bit dirty, your processor can overheat in 20 minutes or less. (If you use absolutly no fan, and run Windows, I think it's something like 2 minutes, then your chip starts smoking and the system dies (looses power)).

You can overclock it by checking those frequency settings on the boards site. But there is a big risk that comes with overclocking, so be aware of that. Also be aware that if you damage your chip from overclocking your warranty is void.

Nonetheless, overclocking a little doesn't hurt (or shouldn't).
But it really depends on whether your CPU fan can cool the chip fast enough, that's why if you hooked up a mini air conditioner to your computer, you could essentially have everything overclocked to the max and it'd run just fine (you can do the same with liquid nitrogen, because it doesn't have a liquid state and the cards have no moving parts, besideds the fans which would be voided once doing that, but I still don't suggest it lol).

Anyway, I hope that helps.

(Also, Orph, it wouldn't be 2200 from plugging in the chip, a lot of times you manually have to set the proper clock speed because the default on the board could be any frequency really) [addsig]



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 Re: Clock Speed?
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Feb 21st at 9:59pm 2004

^^^points up^^^

see why i hang around here, some of this stuff has to rub off eventually.

i compare myself to clay soil, stuff soaks in really slow, but is retained a very long time afterward..

[addsig]



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 Re: Clock Speed?
Posted by scary_jeff on Sat Feb 21st at 11:51pm 2004

It's a laptop, it's very unlikely there are jumpers, and even more unlikely that a Dell BIOS has overclocking options. You reach the maximum speed with speedstep by having your laptop plugged into the mains, and doing something that need's all the CPU power (e.g. a 3D game). The reason your CPU is 'only' running at 1200 when you check it is that if all you are doing is checking the CPU frequency in windows, you don't need 1.7GHz, and so the speed is automatically reduced to save power and extend battery life. The most likely explanation to me is that the Dell diagnostic screwed up, and that it is in fact a 1.7GHz part - why would they have sold you a 2.2 whilst saying it was a 1.7? If you really want the 'fun' of seeing your CPU at 1.7GHz in some program, do something like video encoding, which will allow you to see the CPU-speed meter (or whatever you are using) go up.

Oh, and if you turn your PC on with no CPU heatsink, an Intel CPU will automatically turn itself off when it reaches too high a temperature in an effort to save itself - this will happen in a matter of seconds.

? quote:
that's why if you hooked up a mini air conditioner to your computer, you could essentially have everything overclocked to the max and it'd run just fine (you can do the same with liquid nitrogen, because it doesn't have a liquid state and the cards have no moving parts, besideds the fans which would be voided once doing that, but I still don't suggest it lol)


What are you talking about?



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 Re: Clock Speed?
Posted by Wild Card on Sat Feb 21st at 11:55pm 2004

? posted by Orpheus

i compare myself to clay soil, stuff soaks in really slow, but is retained a very long time afterward..

Is that why your avatar is a tap? I never knew.. lol. Yes I make the dumbest connections possible.

[addsig]



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 Re: Clock Speed?
Posted by Crono on Sun Feb 22nd at 12:09am 2004

A coolent system which doesn't use direct fans. [addsig]



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 Re: Clock Speed?
Posted by scary_jeff on Sun Feb 22nd at 1:05am 2004

Let me rephrase: 'that is all BS'

? quote:
Most processors default at a certain speed because you need to synch them up to your FBS frequency


It's 'FSB', and the processor speed is more to do with the CPUs internal clock multiplier than the FSB anyway. If anything, the CPU dictates what the correct FSB is for itself, and only by manually overiding this do you get any control over the core frequency.

? quote:
But, you can overclock it moreso to the speeds that are being read out that your processor can go


There is no way a piece of software can know the maximum clock speed that a given CPU can run at. Every single one has different limits, and that's ignoring increasing the core voltage, which adds a whole other dimension. The maximum frequency on a speedstep system is the highest speed that speedstep will set, and it has little relation to the actual maximum possible.

? quote:
If you use absolutly no fan, and run Windows, I think it's something like 2 minutes, then your chip starts smoking and the system dies


If you have no fan, the CPU is either dead in seconds, or has automatically turned off.

? quote:
liquid nitrogen, because it doesn't have a liquid state


That doesn't even make sense. And even if you do use liquid nitrogen, you still can't 'set everything to max'. Also overclocking 'a little' is utterly pointless - people overclock the video card by 10MHz and get 3 fps more in a game that already runs at 100fps... what is the point?

? quote:
it wouldn't be 2200 from plugging in the chip, a lot of times you manually have to set the proper clock speed because the default on the board could be any frequency really


Err, yes it would be. Name me one P4 motherboard where you have to set jumpers depending on what CPU you have... it's all auotmatically set by the BIOS.



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 Re: Clock Speed?
Posted by Leperous on Sun Feb 22nd at 1:09am 2004

? posted by Crono
you can do the same with liquid nitrogen, because it doesn't have a liquid state

Muh?





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 Re: Clock Speed?
Posted by Gwil on Sun Feb 22nd at 2:42am 2004

Exactly As far as I understood liquid nitrogen was a liquid, albeit hard and expensive to store and quick to "evaporate" as well...



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 Re: Clock Speed?
Posted by Gorbachev on Sun Feb 22nd at 3:23am 2004

So far as I know Intel chips shut down with no cooling literally from full to freeze in about 3-5 seconds, AMD chips just fry, the odds of you being able to save it are slim. So if you get an AMD, just be sure you know what you're doing with the cooling installation, and a motherboard that's heat sensitive doesn't hurt. [addsig]



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 Re: Clock Speed?
Posted by Crono on Sun Feb 22nd at 8:37am 2004

No, no, no, What I mean is that the liquid state is not harmful to electronics, it doesn't really act as a normal liquid in that state when applied to something, that object gets frozen, when that melts it doesn't turn into a liquid, just vapor.

Secondly, Jeff, I never said software dictates the CPU voltage or clock speed.

Goddamn, I really need to stop posting when I'm tired, what I'm saying makes no sense (earlier two posts). Anyway, nevermind, the whole point of this thread was whether or not the chip can be overclocked, the answer is yes. Instead you guys answering that you tackled my response and nit picked my wording . . . anyway . . . [addsig]



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 Re: Clock Speed?
Posted by sde on Sun Feb 22nd at 10:07am 2004

Right...
Yeah, the CPU is intel, so it would hopefully shut itself down before anything got *really* nasty. As you can probably tell, I know little to nothing about overclocking, and would I be right in saying that it is simply too risky in a laptop...?





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 Re: Clock Speed?
Posted by Crono on Sun Feb 22nd at 10:09am 2004

yeah. . .your best bet to not have problems in the long run is to not overclock the manufacturer settings. [addsig]



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 Re: Clock Speed?
Posted by scary_jeff on Sun Feb 22nd at 10:10am 2004

Well my whole point was that no, it probabably can't be overclocked, because it is a Dell Laptop - you an Orph talk about jumpers that most likely don't even exist in his system. Also, the point of the thread was to let this guy work out how he can get his CPU to the stated 1.7GHz, the answer being that it will reach this speed automatically when he does something that needs it, and that the dell diagnostic just screwed up with the 2.2GHz thing (I have used this tool and it sucks), with 2.2GHz being a figure that means nothing in relation to his system.

[edit] sde, please don't overclock a laptop. If it is even possible on your machine, it is very unlikely that a laptop has the kind of extra cooling you would need in place, and there is no way to put extra cooling in. [/edit]



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 Re: Clock Speed?
Posted by fraggard on Sun Feb 22nd at 10:53am 2004

I agree with scary_jeff. Forget about overclocking it. If you still feel you might get more, try SiSoft SANDRA instead. It's much better at what it does, and works reliably.

http://www.sisoftware.net/index.html?dir=&location=latestver&langx=en&a=

It usually gives very accurate results.



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 Re: Clock Speed?
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Feb 22nd at 11:16am 2004

i admit, my limited experience is all in desk top machines, if my answer is incorrect for lap tops, then ignore it.. i think essentially i was correct though, if you omit the jumper part.

anyways, to make this all more coherent, don't chance an overclock, the possible gain is far outweighed by the losses.. a machine RUNNING at 1.7 is far superior to one running at 0.0 because you screwed the dog..

[addsig]



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 Re: Clock Speed?
Posted by Gorbachev on Sun Feb 22nd at 11:20pm 2004

I wouldn't suggest OCing a laptop anyway, those things are not good in the cooling department. As for Sandra etc. personally I don't use it since the only benchmark I need is how well my computer runs the games I use, whoop-dee-doo if it scores high on a benchmark that doesn't do anything for me. The games you play should be the benchmarks you go by. [addsig]



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 Re: Clock Speed?
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Mon Feb 23rd at 12:30am 2004

? posted by Crono
No, no, no, What I mean is that the liquid state is not harmful to electronics, it doesn't really act as a normal liquid in that state when applied to something, that object gets frozen, when that melts it doesn't turn into a liquid, just vapor.

The operative point is that it is totaly non-conductive. cooking oil would be just as harmless.. just messy. (note I am not suggesting oil as a coolant in your computer)

[addsig]



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 Re: Clock Speed?
Posted by Crono on Mon Feb 23rd at 4:23am 2004

Jeff, you completly missed what I was saying. I wasn't telling him to overclock it, I was explaining what that would do . . . if you actually read what I wrote, secondly most systems after the 700Mghz era don't need jumper settings to be changed to be overclocks, most are adjustable in bios. (So in other words, I'm not ignoring the fact that sometimes jumper settings need to be changed).

So, the fact that you pretty much jumped all over everything I said was uncalled for. Not to mention I put up a post telling sde that he SHOULDN'T overclock it, but I guess you didn't see it or something, anyway.

TB, really? That's messed up lol. [addsig]




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