I saw this topic over at Interlopers and thought it would be good to start here too.
Is anybody here actually against abortion? I think parents should have the right to abort.
Question: What are your feelings on abortion? (poll ended on Thu Dec 17th 2009 at 11:24am)
Abortion should not be allowed. (1 vote)
12.5%
Parents should have the right to abort. (7 votes)
87.5%
1
Re: Abortion
Posted by Le Chief on Sun Oct 18th at 11:24am 2009
Posted by Le Chief on Sun Oct 18th at 11:24am 2009
Re: Abortion
Posted by tnkqwe on Sun Oct 18th at 11:36am 2009
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Posted by tnkqwe on Sun Oct 18th at 11:36am 2009
I think the parents should make their choice.It's their problem.Not ours.
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Re: Abortion
Posted by reaper47 on Sun Oct 18th at 4:45pm 2009
Posted by reaper47 on Sun Oct 18th at 4:45pm 2009
As far as I know, anti-abortion activism is mostly justified through a rather obscure interpretation of the bible. Not really an argument, in my opinion.
Re: Abortion
Posted by Gwil on Mon Oct 19th at 1:06pm 2009
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Posted by Gwil on Mon Oct 19th at 1:06pm 2009
I support the right to abortion, though I am troubled by the ease of access. It is slightly worrying when their are instances of abortion being used as a form of birth control - it seems too easy to absolve some people of proper morals.
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Re: Abortion
Posted by sgtfly on Tue Oct 20th at 1:21am 2009
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Posted by sgtfly on Tue Oct 20th at 1:21am 2009
I'm against abortion, I personally would never allow my wife to have one but as we're in our fifties and have already had our kids I don't worry about it. 
If someone wants to have an abortion it's their choice, I just feel taking a life is wrong.
There are plenty of ppl looking to adopt so aborting to me is wrong and unneccesary, just give the child up for adoption. It's a morally superior alternative.
I agree the ease of which they can be had is unsetttling, but there are those with little regard to the consequences of sex or the ability to control their sexual urges. That is a whole other subject though.
If someone wants to have an abortion it's their choice, I just feel taking a life is wrong.
There are plenty of ppl looking to adopt so aborting to me is wrong and unneccesary, just give the child up for adoption. It's a morally superior alternative.
I agree the ease of which they can be had is unsetttling, but there are those with little regard to the consequences of sex or the ability to control their sexual urges. That is a whole other subject though.
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Re: Abortion
Posted by Le Chief on Tue Oct 20th at 1:34am 2009
Posted by Le Chief on Tue Oct 20th at 1:34am 2009
The argument I made at Interlopers is that a cockroach is far more sophisticated than a child (if you can even call it that, it's a bunch of cells really) at the abortion stage, yet most people against abortion wouldn't fret about killing a cockroach, it's quite ironic.
I think simply saying "it's a life" is a poor argument against abortion because it's just stating a fact and that very statement itself is highly debatable (so perhaps it's just stating an opinion?). At what point does it become a life? I could use the same argument "taking away potential lives" against protected sex.
I think simply saying "it's a life" is a poor argument against abortion because it's just stating a fact and that very statement itself is highly debatable (so perhaps it's just stating an opinion?). At what point does it become a life? I could use the same argument "taking away potential lives" against protected sex.
Re: Abortion
Posted by G4MER on Tue Oct 20th at 1:43am 2009
Posted by G4MER on Tue Oct 20th at 1:43am 2009
Well since were going to break a golden rule, I guess I will jump in here and say I am Pro Choice.
It is not for I to tell any other, even a women carrying my seed what she is to do with her body. And since the baby is part of her body like a separate organ until it is able to be birthed and cut free.. it is not I or the government to decide.. but that of her and her health giver to decide.
even though I am pro choice, my choice would be to have the baby, unless doing so would cause harm/death to the women or baby, then I think abortion is a proper choice to make.
It is not for I to tell any other, even a women carrying my seed what she is to do with her body. And since the baby is part of her body like a separate organ until it is able to be birthed and cut free.. it is not I or the government to decide.. but that of her and her health giver to decide.
even though I am pro choice, my choice would be to have the baby, unless doing so would cause harm/death to the women or baby, then I think abortion is a proper choice to make.
Re: Abortion
Posted by FatStrings on Tue Oct 20th at 4:57pm 2009
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Posted by FatStrings on Tue Oct 20th at 4:57pm 2009
my opinion on all of these types of debates is this, if it doesn't effect the success/failure of the country, and if it doesn't affect others then I don't have an opinion on it
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Re: Abortion
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Wed Oct 21st at 9:47am 2009
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Posted by Yak_Fighter on Wed Oct 21st at 9:47am 2009
Yikes... this thread. 
These are both completely terrible ways to argue a pro-abortion stance, good work.
First off there's no such thing as the 'abortion stage', abortions can be performed at any point before birth. Obviously late term abortions are rarer, but they are still legal (in the US). Second, generally the embryo (a bunch of cells really) becomes a fetus after the 11th week or so, and a good chunk of abortions occur after. I assume you know what a fetus is. Third, a fetus born late in the second trimester has a nontrivial chance of survival aka life. Fourth, there's a world of difference between terminating a pregnancy that has great odds of ending in a healthy infant and wearing a condom. I'm pretty sure that if I murdered you tomorrow I'm not going to be guilty of infinite murders for having killed your potential progeny, but interestingly enough in the US if I were to murder your pregnant wife I would be guilty of double homicide.
Abortion is used more as birth control than for rape, incest, and saving the mother's life. That's pretty much the whole point of the controversy. I'm hard pressed to think of any sizable or sensible group of people who are against abortion in the latter three situations.
"Thou shalt not kill" is not exactly an obscure interpretation of the bible.
Really? I'm pretty sure birth rates, population, and population control are critical to the success or failure of a country. I'm also pretty sure that the skewing of male-to-female ratios found in countries like China and India has an impact.
Quoting aaron_da_killa
The argument I made at Interlopers is that a cockroach is far more sophisticated than a child (if you can even call it that, it's a bunch of cells really) at the abortion stage, yet most people against abortion wouldn't fret about killing a cockroach, it's quite ironic.
I think simply saying "it's a life" is a poor argument against abortion because it's just stating a fact and that very statement itself is highly debatable (so perhaps it's just stating an opinion?). At what point does it become a life? I could use the same argument "taking away potential lives" against protected sex.
I think simply saying "it's a life" is a poor argument against abortion because it's just stating a fact and that very statement itself is highly debatable (so perhaps it's just stating an opinion?). At what point does it become a life? I could use the same argument "taking away potential lives" against protected sex.
These are both completely terrible ways to argue a pro-abortion stance, good work.
First off there's no such thing as the 'abortion stage', abortions can be performed at any point before birth. Obviously late term abortions are rarer, but they are still legal (in the US). Second, generally the embryo (a bunch of cells really) becomes a fetus after the 11th week or so, and a good chunk of abortions occur after. I assume you know what a fetus is. Third, a fetus born late in the second trimester has a nontrivial chance of survival aka life. Fourth, there's a world of difference between terminating a pregnancy that has great odds of ending in a healthy infant and wearing a condom. I'm pretty sure that if I murdered you tomorrow I'm not going to be guilty of infinite murders for having killed your potential progeny, but interestingly enough in the US if I were to murder your pregnant wife I would be guilty of double homicide.
Quoting Gwil
It is slightly worrying when their are instances of abortion being used as a form of birth control - it seems too easy to absolve some people of proper morals.
Abortion is used more as birth control than for rape, incest, and saving the mother's life. That's pretty much the whole point of the controversy. I'm hard pressed to think of any sizable or sensible group of people who are against abortion in the latter three situations.
Quoting reaper47
As far as I know, anti-abortion activism is mostly justified through a rather obscure interpretation of the bible. Not really an argument, in my opinion.
"Thou shalt not kill" is not exactly an obscure interpretation of the bible.
Quoting FatStrings
if it doesn't effect the success/failure of the country, and if it doesn't affect others then I don't have an opinion on it
Really? I'm pretty sure birth rates, population, and population control are critical to the success or failure of a country. I'm also pretty sure that the skewing of male-to-female ratios found in countries like China and India has an impact.
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Re: Abortion
Posted by **Dedi** on Wed Oct 21st at 11:47am 2009
Posted by **Dedi** on Wed Oct 21st at 11:47am 2009
I think that as soon as an embryo is formed, it is a potential human being and aborting it is consequently killing a human being.
I do however have a bit of leeway with this. Any multicellular organism starts life as a single cell and divides repeatedly to produce the highly organised individual. If during cell differentiation(specialisation of cells) a genetic mutation occurs, and it is evident that the resulting newborn will be physically or intellectually handicapped, it would be reasonable to say that ending the life of the fetus before birth would be a better alternative for the parents, and the child, which would be handicapped for its entire life.
I do however have a bit of leeway with this. Any multicellular organism starts life as a single cell and divides repeatedly to produce the highly organised individual. If during cell differentiation(specialisation of cells) a genetic mutation occurs, and it is evident that the resulting newborn will be physically or intellectually handicapped, it would be reasonable to say that ending the life of the fetus before birth would be a better alternative for the parents, and the child, which would be handicapped for its entire life.
Re: Abortion
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Oct 28th at 12:45pm 2009
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Posted by Orpheus on Wed Oct 28th at 12:45pm 2009
/me bows to the master of a statesman. Nice reply Yak.
Other than that, I will not reply. I have my opinions on abortion, and damned few of the supposed "Open minded" like them. Funny how "Open minded" only applies to their priority systems.
Other than that, I will not reply. I have my opinions on abortion, and damned few of the supposed "Open minded" like them. Funny how "Open minded" only applies to their priority systems.
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Re: Abortion
Posted by RedWood on Fri Oct 30th at 8:46pm 2009
Posted by RedWood on Fri Oct 30th at 8:46pm 2009
I think we can all lol at abortion. 
Reality has become a commodity.
Re: Abortion
Posted by Le Chief on Sat Oct 31st at 2:57am 2009
Well not in country... sorry I don't know everything there is to know about America but America != the world.
Posted by Le Chief on Sat Oct 31st at 2:57am 2009
Quoting Yak_Fighter
First off there's no such thing as the 'abortion stage', abortions can be performed at any point before birth.
Well not in country... sorry I don't know everything there is to know about America but America != the world.
Re: Abortion
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Mon Nov 2nd at 1:33pm 2009
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Posted by Yak_Fighter on Mon Nov 2nd at 1:33pm 2009
Yes, sorry I don't have an exhaustive understanding of the entire world's stances on abortion.
However, if Wikipedia is to be believed (it probably isn't), the 'abortion stage', as you so put it, where legal abortions can be performed is up to 22 weeks pregnant, which as I stated earlier is 11 weeks or so after the fetus develops. So your 'mass of cells' argument is still incorrect under Australian law.
Additionally, while abortion law is not federally set in Australia there is one state where abortion is fully legalized and two with de facto full legalization.
However, if Wikipedia is to be believed (it probably isn't), the 'abortion stage', as you so put it, where legal abortions can be performed is up to 22 weeks pregnant, which as I stated earlier is 11 weeks or so after the fetus develops. So your 'mass of cells' argument is still incorrect under Australian law.
Additionally, while abortion law is not federally set in Australia there is one state where abortion is fully legalized and two with de facto full legalization.
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Re: Abortion
Posted by G4MER on Mon Nov 2nd at 2:47pm 2009
Posted by G4MER on Mon Nov 2nd at 2:47pm 2009
Dont be jealous Aaron.. its not very becoming. 
Quoting aaron_da_killa
America != the world.
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