the Passion.....
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Re: the Passion.....
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Tue Mar 2nd at 4:27am 2004


That's better





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Re: the Passion.....
Posted by Cassius on Tue Mar 2nd at 4:51am 2004


? posted by Orpheus

my theory sir gwil.. any society that depicts jesus as a caucasian, deserves my scorn at best, and my outright .. well i have no faith in a people who cannot even get the race illustrated correctly :/

I don't quite know about that, Orph. Religion and morality are subjective, they exist only when people can identify with and apply their ethics to their own lives. If you've ever seen Chinese Christian art, the Chinese style is very apparent, but why does that degrade it? If Jesus is white, and the majority of our country is white, then so be it, if it needs be changed then it will change.

"My argument stands"

Then I don't believe I understood your argument correctly.





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Re: the Passion.....
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Tue Mar 2nd at 4:58am 2004


? posted by whiteLegion
My argument stands

No, your argument misses the point. The movie was a classic passion play a very old tradition of acting out Jesus's last hours. it was not suposed to be the story of his life, or in any way a presentation of the doctrine he tought.

[addsig]




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Re: the Passion.....
Posted by whiteLegion on Tue Mar 2nd at 5:40am 2004


? posted by Tracer Bullet
? posted by whiteLegion
My argument stands

No, your argument misses the point. The movie was a classic passion play a very old tradition of acting out Jesus's last hours. it was not suposed to be the story of his life, or in any way a presentation of the doctrine he tought.

? posted by Cassius

"My argument stands"

Then I don't believe I understood your argument correctly.

WL: My "argument" was that the movie is shallow. It is shallow because it ignores the doctrine he tought. The movie being shallow is just my opinion, and I already said why in my first post. But to repeat what I said before, 2.5 hours of a man being tortured does not make for good cinema (my opinion, anyone who disagrees say otherwhise) or set jc from other martyrs in history.

? posted by Cassius
? posted by Dr Brasso

this assumes you have a heart to begin with.....

Well, that ruins my plans.

And, Mr. WhiteLegion, I don't think if you were getting your ass whipped with razor edge whips and nailed on a cross that you would give too much thought to the fact that crucifiction was a common practice (which I don't believe it was until Spartacus' slave revolt), much less that it was unfair to focus on your own suffering because others had been given worse treatment.

Had the movie explored into any of God's teachings, people would be having a much larger hissy fit about the whole thing, but that was not its end - the movie was made to show you exactly what happened to Jesus to inspire respect for the belief that he died for us.

WL: I don't know anything about the "Spartacus' slave revolt", but that still does not cahnge the truth that people where crucified before jc. And people since have suffered just as much if not more. (As far as bodily suffering is concerned). And seeing how jc died does not "inspire" people to believe in his cause. If that were the case the peoples "belief in jc" would be weak. JC strength lies in his relationship with god not the severity of his crucifiction....





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Re: the Passion.....
Posted by Cash Car Star on Tue Mar 2nd at 6:59am 2004


Legion, you mind getting rid of that URL underneath your name? It's screwing with the board in a fugly way.

As to the whole White Jesus thing, he was of Jewish descent; Jews of today would be a good enough model to go by for what he may have looked like considering their tenacity for marrying other Jews through the years. And he's not that far off, it's not like he's blatantly Irish or something...





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Re: the Passion.....
Posted by $loth on Tue Mar 2nd at 7:29am 2004


? posted by Alien_Sniper
I don't think I'm going to waste my money watching JC get crucified on the big screen.

I agree with AS on this one, i go to a catholic skool so if i wanna c big J get killled ill go to the chapel.....

[addsig]




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Re: the Passion.....
Posted by Kage_Prototype on Tue Mar 2nd at 8:03am 2004


? quote:
Did it have the suiside squad?

sorry I just started thinking about the Life of Brian where he's being crusifyed and a guard comes and askes who's Brian and every one but Brian says there Brian I love the bloke that says "I'm Brian and so is my wife".

I carnt beleve that that film was banned for 20 years for being anti-christian.


Banned? I don't recall it being banned anywhere. Even though the critisicms from the church was unprecedented, it was never actually banned as far as I know. Where do you live? Maybe it was an isolated banning. And how people can call it anti-christian, when Jesus is actually treated with a large amount of respect, is beyond me. [addsig]




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Re: the Passion.....
Posted by Kain on Tue Mar 2nd at 9:46am 2004


I never liked Mel Gibson(except in "what women want"), but I think I'll start to like him after that movie. There's a lot of anti-christian details in movies nowadays... Everywhere there's a naked woman with a cross on her neck, or a rotten priest, or a virgin marie statue who just "happens to be" in the background, in a house for prostitutes (cf. Artificial Intelligence), or a rabbin who wins the chick against a priest (i forgot the name of the movie)...

So it's nice to see some christian-friendly movie from time to time...





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Re: the Passion.....
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Mar 2nd at 11:57am 2004


? posted by Cassius
? posted by Orpheus

my theory sir gwil.. any society that depicts jesus as a caucasian, deserves my scorn at best, and my outright .. well i have no faith in a people who cannot even get the race illustrated correctly :/

I don't quite know about that, Orph. Religion and morality are subjective, they exist only when people can identify with and apply their ethics to their own lives. If you've ever seen Chinese Christian art, the Chinese style is very apparent, but why does that degrade it? If Jesus is white, and the majority of our country is white, then so be it, if it needs be changed then it will change.

"My argument stands"

Then I don't believe I understood your argument correctly.

i know i am going to type this one way but mean it a totally different one so bare with me cass..

what i find distasteful is people "praise" jesus everyday, but also are some of the same people who say crap like "jews are the scourge of the earth" or some other derogatory comment..

if jesus, was indeed jewish, then he needs to have his portrait represented correctly, to have any meaning at all.

cultures who alter the image are not only s**tting on the poor guy, but allowing their own personal biases to influence how they "view" jesus.

when america "whitened" him to our race, and cash i didn't say "lightened" him, i mean white, as in the jesus christ superstar image, it really IMO slapped him (jesus) in the face.

it would be like, 2000 years from now, martin luther king jr. was portrayed as white, or jewish, or maybe even (if we have left earth) some other race entirely..

i am not putting MLK in the same class as JC, but i think you understand my drift.

america (and i assume other countries) are seriously biased, and racist at heart, especially if they think JC looked anything like his portraits of today.

anyways, i hope that came out fairly coherent.

[addsig]




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Re: the Passion.....
Posted by Leperous on Tue Mar 2nd at 12:18pm 2004


Jews today are different to Jews back then- many of them are secular and don't actually have a religion, while the rest "believe in the teachings in the Old Testament" (I think that's right?) and don't believe Jesus is the son of god or whatever. It's more about the lifestyle now.

It's quite funny actually and just goes to show how people know f**k all about anything (and yet think they're clever enough to be able to objectively look at the bible and become Christian or not?! Ha!). Of course Jews were 'responsible' for his death- if not the people in general, then some elders- but surely the fact that he died is a good thing, the best thing that could happen to us, according to christians.

According to Christians though. As an atheist, I find it absurd- if Jesus is the son of god/god himself, then crucifying him isn't going to be a big deal at all, and if you think of the larger picture it's not at all logical/sane. If Jesus was sent down to die for us, he would have known, and perhaps God, forseeing the hatred towards Jews, would have done things a bit differently...





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Re: the Passion.....
Posted by Cassius on Tue Mar 2nd at 3:24pm 2004


Jesus was a real person, perhaps not the son of God, but he was indeed crucified, which is a rather gruesome punishment, especially for a man who (as far as we know) did absolutely nothing to deserve it. If anyone wants to depict that suffering out of respect and belief in that man as a diety, I don't find anything wrong with it. If that suffering was too intense to watch or you don't respect the beliefs or opinions in the movie, save your eight bucks and stay at home.

I wouldn't take this kind of stance with most things, but since it is a movie, especially one where it was made to sell to only one audience, it warrants that defense.





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Re: the Passion.....
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Mar 2nd at 3:31pm 2004


fundamentally, i concur with master cassius..

there are 10's of 1000's of movies, don't watch the ones you find offencive..

sounds like pretty good advice to me.

[addsig]




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Re: the Passion.....
Posted by matt on Tue Mar 2nd at 3:56pm 2004


Half too 99.9% of the movies that holywood releases are crap anyway. I think the only film that I've liked that came from holywood in the last 12months was part 3 of the LOTR trilogy, and last month I saw 'Big Fish' which was a total pile of rubbish. [addsig]



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Re: the Passion.....
Posted by Cash Car Star on Tue Mar 2nd at 4:17pm 2004


Kain, the last movie you are referring to is "Keeping the Faith" with Ben Stiller and Ed Norton. Personally, I thought that was one of the smarter and least offensive movies made in the past decade that has a priest in a lead role. Of course, it was more ecumenical than orthodox, so I could see how the hard-liners wouldn't like it.



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Re: the Passion.....
Posted by Leperous on Tue Mar 2nd at 4:27pm 2004


? posted by Cassius

Jesus was a real person, perhaps not the son of God, but he was indeed crucified, which is a rather gruesome punishment, especially for a man who (as far as we know) did absolutely nothing to deserve it.

I like the way you take this to be given, when it's questionable at best. Are you basing this off Josephus (or here)? His account can't be taken as 'fact' The only strong leg you have to stand on is the fact that there *is* a bible/church which have been around for so long, in which case I'd refer you to the hundreds of other religions/texts in the world and ask you to explain the difference.





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Re: the Passion.....
Posted by matt on Tue Mar 2nd at 4:37pm 2004


God and Gaming don't mix if you ask me.

[addsig]




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Re: the Passion.....
Posted by Dr Brasso on Tue Mar 2nd at 6:06pm 2004


this is NOT the discussion i wanted to invoke gents *sigh.....but this being the snarkpit, i should have known better....

Doc B.....





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Re: the Passion.....
Posted by 7dk2h4md720ih on Tue Mar 2nd at 6:11pm 2004


Let's all talk about what Brasso wants!

*mumbles*

selfish git

[addsig]




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Re: the Passion.....
Posted by 7dk2h4md720ih on Tue Mar 2nd at 6:19pm 2004


Jesus pwns

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Central/02/26/passion.death.reut/index.html [addsig]




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Re: the Passion.....
Posted by Gwil on Tue Mar 2nd at 6:27pm 2004


Leprous denying the existence of a "Jesus" is possibly defending your beliefs a little too vehemently... - there is good historical evidence to support his life - the only thing in doubt is what he was/did.

I myself absolutely disbelieve pretty much everything laid out by the Bible, and think it is no longer a good moral base, more a tool for an elite few to abuse and exercise on people for their own ends, but you have to accept that people have beliefs and they deserve to be respected I thought a real class A university student would be the first to acknowledge this..

Either way thats not what the threads about and we're more or less covering old ground - and its old ground situated in a no mans land of debate. Religion is a sensitive topic, and due to its personal nature of belief/disbelief and what it means to each invididual person, i'm afraid youre never going to be able to shift peoples opinions dramatically. Besides, pursuing an anti-Christian line and trying to rubbish something is simply "indoctrination" on the flipside, as it were..






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