Xbox 2
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Re: Xbox 2
Posted by DAN200 on Thu Mar 4th at 7:14pm 2004


? posted by omegaslayer4777

lets just say that the x-box is pointless if you have a computer, CAUSE THATS WHAT IT IS!!!!!!!!! A low-end computer with an opeating system that limits you to do nothing.

You just described every games console ever made, including gameboys, most mobile phones and calculators, digital TVs and radios.... I could go on.





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Re: Xbox 2
Posted by Crono on Thu Mar 4th at 7:25pm 2004


~sigh~ . . . . we've covered this, I think.

The only thing I was trying to say is that, in having a Hard drive in an X-Box it SLOWS the game time down, maybe not while running so much, but it will definatly slow down load times, which is not cool for a console. Consoles are suppose to be quick and reliable. By actually using out of house computer parts to build a system is, well, nothing short of lazyness. (and yes the entire X-Box is built from out of house hardware, as is CERTAIN parts, such as video units in other consoles, but not the entire freakin' thing).

Anyway, it is all opinion on whether you like the X-Box or not, However, you shouldn't get on someones back because they think it's like a computer, because it is. It is the one console that IS a computer. The others at least don't RELY on hard disk support (Which again makes it slower). That's all I was trying to say. [addsig]




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Re: Xbox 2
Posted by Hornpipe2 on Thu Mar 4th at 8:01pm 2004


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The only thing I was trying to say is that, in having a Hard drive in an X-Box it SLOWS the game time down, maybe not while running so much, but it will definatly slow down load times, which is not cool for a console.

HD is faster than DVD read. Thus, caching files to the HD from the DVD speeds up game speed. Therefore, using an HD actually SPEEDS the game up and reduces load times. Plus, the HD eliminates the need for annoyingly small memory cards, allows for more downloadable content, and can hold large software updates in case bugs are later discovered that need some fixin'.

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By actually using out of house computer parts to build a system is, well, nothing short of lazyness. (and yes the entire X-Box is built from out of house hardware, as is CERTAIN parts, such as video units in other consoles, but not the entire freakin' thing).

The XBox used a custom NVidia chip that you couldn't buy at the time it came out, and you're telling me it's off the shelf? Besides, why is it lazy? Using existing hardware makes the console cheaper for construction, ergo the console is cheaper for the end user. That way you sell more boxes, for less price. Everybody wins, unless you're a rampant Microsoft hater and don't want to see anyone buy this thing.

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Anyway, it is all opinion on whether you like the X-Box or not,

No s**t. That's the way all consoles are, as well as any other kind of "like".

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However, you shouldn't get on someones back because they think it's like a computer, because it is. It is the one console that IS a computer. The others at least don't RELY on hard disk support (Which again makes it slower). That's all I was trying to say.

All I'm trying to say is, don't post ever again.

PS - The Dreamcast, Gamecube and PS2 can run Linux. Does that make them computers as well, since they can run a PC operating system that gives you as much control as a PC? Let's not forget that the PS2 has a hard drive, and all of them have network cards, and all of them have a storage device (memory cards), keyboards and other input devices, etc. Your point is meaningless - they are ALL computers in various shapes. [addsig]




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Re: Xbox 2
Posted by Leperous on Thu Mar 4th at 8:02pm 2004


lol ladies, please...



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Re: Xbox 2
Posted by Crono on Thu Mar 4th at 8:15pm 2004


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HD is faster than DVD read. Thus, caching files to the HD from the DVD speeds up game speed. Therefore, using an HD actually SPEEDS the game up and reduces load times.


Right, right, because memory is slower then a hard disk..... (other consoles load that information into memory instead of reading directly off the DVD)

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The XBox used a custom NVidia chip that you couldn't buy at the time it came out, and you're telling me it's off the shelf? Besides, why is it lazy? Using existing hardware makes the console cheaper for construction, ergo the console is cheaper for the end user. That way you sell more boxes, for less price. Everybody wins, unless you're a rampant Microsoft hater and don't want to see anyone buy this thing.


The hardware used was only 'new' for a small period of time, meaning most people who've bought an X-Box bought it after they could have goten that hardware seperatly.

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No s**t. That's the way all consoles are, as well as any other kind of "like".


Usually people mistake things I say for facts, I was just clairfying.....

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All I'm trying to say is, don't post ever again.


f**k you.

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PS - The Dreamcast, Gamecube and PS2 can run Linux. Does that make them computers as well


YES, I already said that twice.
But my point was in the mannor they use them.

However, the X-Box is the only 'console' which is also of the X86 architecture... [addsig]




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Re: Xbox 2
Posted by $loth on Thu Mar 4th at 8:27pm 2004


X-Box 2 specs......

3 IBM g5-class 64 bit cpus
an ATI graphics chip-256 meg
Its rumoured to be based on the forthcoming Windows longhorn OS and will be direct x-10 compatable

dont get too excited, its not due for a while

[addsig]




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Re: Xbox 2
Posted by omegaslayer on Thu Mar 4th at 8:32pm 2004


? posted by DAN200
? posted by omegaslayer4777

lets just say that the x-box is pointless if you have a computer, CAUSE THATS WHAT IT IS!!!!!!!!! A low-end computer with an opeating system that limits you to do nothing.

You just described every games console ever made, including gameboys, most mobile phones and calculators, digital TVs and radios.... I could go on.

True, but what made the x-box even more useless is its games were already on the comp, except for a few exceptiolns (DOA)





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Re: Xbox 2
Posted by Crono on Thu Mar 4th at 8:47pm 2004


loth, where did you get those specs? Everything, even from MS, says they're building in house hardware this time around. (And inadvertantly trying to take over your entertainment center) [addsig]



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Re: Xbox 2
Posted by omegaslayer on Thu Mar 4th at 9:53pm 2004


? posted by $loth

X-Box 2 specs......

3 IBM g5-class 64 bit cpus
an ATI graphics chip-256 meg
Its rumoured to be based on the forthcoming Windows longhorn OS and will be direct x-10 compatable

dont get too excited, its not due for a while

I think these specs are correct, I wouldn't be surprised that their using a G5 for it, those things are beasts, They render so fast, but in anycase my comp that im on now is much better than that.....well if I overclock my 9800 pro a bit, just a tad bit.





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Re: Xbox 2
Posted by Hornpipe2 on Thu Mar 4th at 10:09pm 2004


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HD is faster...

Right, right, because memory is slower then a hard disk..... (other consoles load that information into memory instead of reading directly off the DVD)

Sorry, that's not how it works. Let's look at a game that uses HD caching, such as Dead or Alive 3. The first time you choose your level and characters, all the code necessary to play the actual game is loaded off the DVD. So, the first load is at DVD read speed. But, when it's getting information into RAM it also makes a copy to the hard drive. Loading is finished, you play the game, you return to the title screen. Suppose you want to play again. Now, instead of loading off the DVD, you load the data off the HD, effectively making faster load times.
Other games can use the HD by copying data off the DVD while you do things like sit at the title or menu screens - then, when you make a selection, it can do some or all of the streaming off the HD which is faster.

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The XBox used...

The hardware used was only 'new' for a small period of time, meaning most people who've bought an X-Box bought it after they could have goten that hardware seperatly.

That's true for all consoles though - every bit of hardware on it is outdated in a few months, just like a computer.
Really, you haven't said anything about why it's bad for the XBox to use existing hardware. I've stated that it's cheaper for the company and for the end user. Why are you so opposed to that? I say, since Microsoft already loses money each time they make and sell an xbox, where's the incentive to make it "just a little bit better"?

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PS - The Dreamcast...

YES, I already said that twice.
But my point was in the mannor they use them.

However, the X-Box is the only 'console' which is also of the X86 architecture...

and? [addsig]




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Re: Xbox 2
Posted by Rumple on Thu Mar 4th at 10:27pm 2004


i read in a newspaper article yesteday that microsoft have shiped the Xbox 2 development kits out to the developers its on a dual Apple G5 with a Radeon 9800 but they will be upgrading them when they get their custom ATI card

[addsig]



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Re: Xbox 2
Posted by Crono on Thu Mar 4th at 10:35pm 2004


I never said any of this was 'bad' per-say. I just said I didn't approve of it as a console, because it isn't one, really. It's even the same architecture as your computer, unless your computer is insanely old or incredibly new.

Secondly, I'm well aware of how caches work. But, the X-Box is relying too heavily on them. the second you choose a differnet option from what is cached, you're screwed, basically (not that it wont work, just that it will take longer). In all actuality the X86 arch is one of the worst architectures you could base gamming on, it is not fast, and it very inneficient. (this the lean towards pipelinging and 64-bit processing)

Other consoles, such as GameCube, have caching as well, through memory only, thus the speed of the console (mostly on 1st party games though).

The whole point of everything I was saying is, it is a computer. Hands down. Same architecture, same uses as a computer (you can run Linux on it and make an X-Box a mail server). So, if you already have a computer, why, oh why, would you get an X-Box? This was my point. Other consoles that are out are not total computers, not just yet.

I wasn't knocking X-Box, or harrasing people who thought differently then I.

Also, if you develop in house hardware, it become much cheaper to produce in the long run of about 3 years or so, which means you can easily reduce prices, right now Microsoft is losing about $100 per console sold, because of hardware agreements, not that that is much money to the company in general.

Don't take my remarks as an attack on the product, I'm just saying what it is, I don't know how people got me saying it was basically a computer confused with it's a piece of s**t. Or something like that. [addsig]




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Re: Xbox 2
Posted by 7dk2h4md720ih on Thu Mar 4th at 11:06pm 2004


? quote:
i read in a newspaper article yesteday that microsoft have shiped the Xbox 2 development kits out to the developers its on a dual Apple G5 with a Radeon 9800 but they will be upgrading them when they get their custom ATI card


Read the first post on this topic... [addsig]




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Re: Xbox 2
Posted by SuperCrazy on Thu Mar 4th at 11:12pm 2004


I'd like to take this opportunity to say that if you don't have an Xbox, you're missing out on the best game released so far this year.

Back to playing Ninja Gaiden.





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Re: Xbox 2
Posted by Crono on Thu Mar 4th at 11:15pm 2004


Actually, I want to play that lol. And Fathom, but I'd rather shell out 30 bucks for a DVD drive then buy an X-Box for $150+ or so.

But yeah, Ninja Gaiden has always been awesome. [addsig]




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Re: Xbox 2
Posted by Rumple on Fri Mar 5th at 2:00am 2004


I just sorta skimmed over the topic so i guess i missed that [addsig]



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Re: Xbox 2
Posted by ReNo on Fri Mar 5th at 10:04am 2004


? posted by Crono
So, if you already have a computer, why, oh why, would you get an X-Box?

Because it has great games unavailable on other consoles (Otogi, Project Gotham Racing, Phantom Crash, JSRF, and the list goes on and on), and because playing games on a console is a vastly different experience to playing on some s**tty illegal emulator. Gone is the joy of chilling on your couch with 3 mates, 4 controllers and a big TV for some quality deathmatch on Halo's Blood Gulch. Gone is the joy of having a console that can also be used to watch the many films you and your flatmates frequently buy. Sure a DVD drive on your computer is cheaper, but its somewhat different to having a permanent DVD player sat in your lounge.

As for some of these daft other comments about "having a hard drive slowing it down" - who gives a s**t? Since when is it noticeable whether Soul Calibur 2 or Burnout 2 take slightly longer to load on the Xbox than the other systems? And to be honest I'd be incredibly sceptical about that. Even if it IS true, I'd happily put up with a second or two delay in order to get smoother graphics and a faster framerate, and in many cases a more suitable controller (particularly for racing games).

Omegaslayer, you are excedingly ignorant if you think DOA is one of few Xbox specific games. As for saying "almost all are available on the PC", I think you will find that very few are in truth. All I can hope is that if you ever contribute to the worlds gene pool, your offspring don't jump to such obviously untrue conclusions, and then state them like facts.

[addsig]




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Re: Xbox 2
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Mar 5th at 11:16am 2004


? posted by ReNo
? posted by Crono
So, if you already have a computer, why, oh why, would you get an X-Box?

Because it has great games unavailable on other consoles

all this assumes, that great games is a term everyone uses..

i for one, have very limited access or initiative to do so, but have never seen a game that compares to a PC version, and feel if it is truly great, it will either be released as a PC version 1st, or eventually at least.

"great games" is very subjective.. my likes are few, my time is even smaller to waste on them.. no xbox version of civilization is around that i know of, actually no games at all i would buy are for xbox..

sadly.. i do not consider someone else's idea of great to be motivation enuff.

anyways, the market exists in spite of PC's, so there must be some redeeming value..

/ 2 cents

[addsig]




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Re: Xbox 2
Posted by Leperous on Fri Mar 5th at 11:39am 2004


For mindless multiplayer games



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Re: Xbox 2
Posted by matt on Fri Mar 5th at 12:17pm 2004


Xbox is great fun. But as for the online gaming bit, this is a market that I predict will never take a hold... The
PC is built for playing online games on, not the consoles that try to support this method of play. And as for that 64bit chips in the Xbox2... Sounds cool. [addsig]





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