i got them from a reliable source........micro mart, who probably got them directly from microsoft

Yes I know there are a lot of games out for the x-box only and not on the comp, but really a lot of them are out for pc while they are on the x-box, I was merely mentioning DOA because it was one of the "trade mark" games of the x-box. I can't name all the games off the top of my head (odd world, fusion frenzy, Ninja Gaiden), but at first thought for x-box games I remember they are on the computer (morrowind, halo, jedi knight, etc.) the list goes on. I was merely stating that the x-box has its "big games" already on the computer, with the exception of one of the collest games for 2004: Ninja Gaiden

You are right Crono, I am getting needlessly angry about anti-Xbox people, to the extent that I could almost be called an Xbox fanboy. The truth is however, that I am against all fanboyism to a huge extent.

I hate when people cover their eyes and shout insults at games because they don't belong on their system of choice. I hate when blatantly poor games are given star treatment by gamers because it IS found on their system of choice. I hate when an FPS or strategy game is mocked simply because it finds itself on a console rather than the PC.

Is it so hard to look beyond the system and comment on the games themselves? Afterall, in essence the only REAL difference the system makes is the control system (except in extreme circumstances), which while it can be a large factor (eg. Racing games are far better played on the Xbox controller with its largely analogue triggers), is hardly the be all and end all of gaming critique.

Obviously, a good game is in the eye of the beholder, and the system that is right for you may not be at all right for another person. If you like online FPS's and MMORPG's, then most likely a console is a huge waste of money. But if you like racing games, beat em ups, and party games, then a console is most certainly a wise investment, and the Xbox is as worth considering as the rest of them.

Crono, hardware isn't a concern for me - a system which has the primary function of playing games, to me classifies as a games console, and to say otherwise IS mere technicality. Obviously all consoles have very similar architecture to PC's, as at low level they ARE PC's heavily streamlined for gaming, but lets not mince our words here - to concern yourself with that is to defeat the point of the console.

As for Xbox Live, how is it a rip-off? Ok, so it is ?40 a year on top of your broadband costs, and I'll admit that I've yet to get it (but I will be snapping it up once ADSL is installed next month), but it is a quality service, that is proving significantly popular. It may seem harsh to charge so much for a yearly fee when the PC charges nothing, but it is a dedicated service, and increasingly these days PC games servers (such as wireplay in the past) are also charging fees to maintain the high level of reliability, maintainability, and service, that Xbox Live seems to manage. Add on top of this the rather generous 2 month free offers that they threw out with loads of games at the end of last year, and the headset and online versions of games that come with the ?40 package, and its not really as bad as you may think.

Omega, perhaps I was somewhat harsh before, but you were stating false facts. The truth is that you obviously don't know much about the range of games available (I don't mean to insult, but you don't), as if you did, you would realise that the Xbox has a huge range of out and incoming release that aren't available anywhere else. The games you listed as being common to both the Xbox and PC, is pretty much the full list, other than perhaps Splinter Cell and KOTOR, but both of those came out on the Xbox significantly earlier than the PC. Regardless, people who purchase only big-hitters are missing out on some of the hidden gems that are always underappreciated on a console; I point to Otogi, Phantom Crash, Gun Valkyrie, Jet Set Radio Future, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Crimson Sea, etc etc...

Bah, enough defending I do it because I feel that sometimes consoles get a horrible stigma around them that is wholly undeserved, and while you may not look upon it as such Crono, you are essentially bashing the Xbox.

Here's my question: why in the name of God is Microsoft having software made for them on a Mac?

Oh, and XBox "pwnz ur b4$$," as they say, but I'll let Reno convince you of that one.

he says, "from what he has heard"

and the difference between 40, and 47 is marginal, when you consider its second hand info he is drawing from..

/ 2 cents