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Viral possiblities
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 Re: Viral possiblities
Posted by Crono on Wed Oct 26th at 6:23am 2011

Uh ... no, they can still transfer the virus if the files are infect.

Computer viruses propagate through various means, attaching themselves to existing files is just one way they do this. This is the primary way viruses are transmitted NOT EXPLICITLY THROUGH EXECUTABLES.

That information ... whatever it is ... get's loaded into memory and ultimately the CPU ... those injected instructions could be ANYTHING. They piggyback on existing files simply as a pathway into your system memory.

Viruses generally attack system files, though, because they can propagate faster that way.

However ... most viruses are actually silent and they do as much as they can to NOT become an annoyance to the user, because that defeats their purpose. The majority of viruses (the really bad ones) are not simply annoying things that slow your computer down, they are things that compromise the computer's integrity. For example, turning it into a zombie box. Doing something like this allows a pathway through the internet to your computer as proxy. This happens a lot to conduct illegal activities or commit DOS attacks.

The nastiest viruses are completely alleviated by anti-virus software. Something like Trend Micro really will stop these things in their tracks and clean the existing infections.

Formatting shouldn't really be a viable option as a constant resort. It doesn't necessarily remove the virus either.

The main issue is people think about this stuff in axiomatic terms, when they're really not. It makes the situation difficult to understand as a result.

Short of it: Get a HDD with a good warranty so you can keep your data going (why would you WANT to re-install everything!?) and PAY for some decent virus protection, it's well worth it.

Trend Micro is excellent software. You can also buy multi-license copies which allow you to install it as many times as you want. It's like $50 a year or something. It's enterprise quality stuff and entirely non-invasive.

I can't really stress enough, also, how ridiculously useful Diagnostic mode is for this junk. It essentially stops ALL non-essential programs from running. This means that existing viral processes can't run, and you can remove them without worrying about them regenerating.


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: Viral possiblities
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Oct 26th at 2:19pm 2011

I know its not a solution for most people cause they use their PC's for important stuff but mine are just toys. My laptop has something like 125 gigs of HDD space and 90% of it is filled with audiobooks, pictures and a few movies I can watch when I am waiting to be loaded.

To me, reinstalling takes FAR less time than trying to root out a virus that no scan shows. *shrugs*

I have all but given up on questionable sites because today's virus's and malware are just so destructive. So that part of the equation is taken care of. What I need to do I guess is have a decent virus scan installed. This way I can block the random virus encounters that seem unavoidable.

My problem is I am old school where the ram is so valuable that the resources were saved for gaming. Now my PC's have so much ram it should no longer be a problem.

I have 3 PC's and soon to be 4. I reckon I need a virus program for multiple PC's.



The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Viral possiblities
Posted by sgtfly on Wed Oct 26th at 5:27pm 2011

No problem partner.
I was figuring that this was all personal stuff you had on there. Just make sure you get your stuff backed up and safe somewhere.

I'm not that paranoid about virus's and malware, and I have gotten plenty. That error is legit and I'll bet a dollar to a donut the drives will fail at some point. It could be tomorrow or next year but it will.

Just out of curiosity I have studying this and it mostly has been happening with notebooks, why ?...who knows but it could just be the general size or design of those drives.


Light is faster than sound:That is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

Your riches in life are family and friends, everything else is just a distraction.



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 Re: Viral possiblities
Posted by Crono on Thu Oct 27th at 12:33am 2011

They're harder to manufacture. They're on a significantly smaller scale for physical machinery, so that leads to inherit problems.

There are some HDDs with some cool tech, though. Like uh, that impact smart stuff, it locks the arms if it detects any sort of rapid movement. It makes it so the platters can't become contaminated. Which is neat. (If the heads ever touch the platter, the drive is toast)

I forgot to mention, for SMART data ... it will actually NOT just pop up and let you know your HDD is dying ... unless it's literally about to crap out.

There are some warning signs, though. Failed reads is a big one. If you see a bunch of failed reads in SMART data (which you have to manually check through software ... I don't personally know of one you can use on Windows). It's a bigger warning sign than bad sectors.

But, as drives get larger ... it takes hours to format a 2TB drive for installation. While in the same amount of time (or less) you can clone the partition and be done with it. It's much simpler and it takes less time.


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: Viral possiblities
Posted by sgtfly on Thu Oct 27th at 2:02am 2011

Mostly what I saw where spindle problems and the drives weren't getting up to speed b4 the prob was recorded.

I've used Ghost a lot to clone drives, which is really painless IMO. Saves a lot of headaches. You can partition the rest of the drive later.

Bad sectors aren't usually a worry are they, the drive will just ignore them or block them and write to another sector.

Yeah, I think the SMART just's logs problems, you have to actually check the log when you start having minor problems.

Though I believe while I was looking into this there is a program called ActiveSMART which you can use to read the data in windows.


Light is faster than sound:That is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

Your riches in life are family and friends, everything else is just a distraction.



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 Re: Viral possiblities
Posted by Orpheus on Thu Oct 27th at 2:10am 2011

Still not home so all my posts are supposition.
The funny thing about this is, my wifes laptop gave some signs. Few, but some.
Mine? Not a single one. At least not until that first one the day I left.

I am resigned more/less to having to replace the HDD. That way when I get home and run all the tests/diagnostics I won't be quite as depressed.

We still have one unanswered question, (or maybe I missed it)
Can a virus hop onto a thumb drive? or better, since I have so much on my laptop, will it jump onto a recorded disk? (DVD or CD I burn)

I really have little I cherish but it did take me a long time to collect all these pictures and audiobooks. They are replaceable though.



The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Viral possiblities
Posted by sgtfly on Thu Oct 27th at 3:02am 2011

The answer is yes. Whatever data you put on the flash drive or disk would have it on there if you copied an infected file to it.

I feel your pain buddy, but I really don't believe you have anything to worry about, other than the drive going b4 you get all your stuff off it.

For your peace of mind though, I'd just scan the s*** out of whatever you put your stuff on b4 putting it on a new drive.




Light is faster than sound:That is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

Your riches in life are family and friends, everything else is just a distraction.



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 Re: Viral possiblities
Posted by Orpheus on Thu Oct 27th at 3:04am 2011

*sighs*
I was afraid of that. I thought it was impossible to infect a .jpg or an MP3 file. smiley



The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Viral possiblities
Posted by sgtfly on Thu Oct 27th at 3:11am 2011

Not impossible just infinitesimally unlikely you got it.


Light is faster than sound:That is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

Your riches in life are family and friends, everything else is just a distraction.



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 Re: Viral possiblities
Posted by omegaslayer on Thu Oct 27th at 4:57am 2011

Quoting Orpheus
We still have one unanswered question, (or maybe I missed it)
Can a virus hop onto a thumb drive? or better, since I have so much on my laptop, will it jump onto a recorded disk? (DVD or CD I burn)

Yes. Viruses hop to your removable drive all the time. Want to verify? Have windows show hidden folders/files, and look on the drive, if theres a hidden executable file, then the drive is infected. You can delete it and see if it pops back, that means your computer is infected, and the virus is trying to propagate to another machine through the drive.

Do you have an antivirus orph? Any respectable antivirus will catch virus code in any jpeg, mp3, pdf you have.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/products/security-essentials

M$ Security essentials is pretty good for a free antivirus.

If you want total protection for free then look at

http://www.avira.com/en/avira-free-antivirus

The free version. It'll pop up with ONE ad on bootup, and thats it. Even for 30$ its a deal. I Swear by this program. It'll find rootkits, and ANY thing that is suspicious it'll alert you.

Of course there are trade-offs. More protection means more of a system impact.

Things to stay away from:
Spyroot, McAfee, Norton 360.


Posting And You



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 Re: Viral possiblities
Posted by Crono on Thu Oct 27th at 8:50am 2011

Quoting sgtfly
I've used Ghost a lot to clone drives, which is really painless IMO. Saves a lot of headaches. You can partition the rest of the drive later.

Bad sectors aren't usually a worry are they, the drive will just ignore them or block them and write to another sector.

Yeah, I think the SMART just's logs problems, you have to actually check the log when you start having minor problems.


It's much easier to actively copy the partition (like, gparted or something) if you use a backup utility ... or a Symantec product ... you're going to be in for some unwelcome surprises, usually.

I use stuff that's available on live discs, so you're not even locking the HDD down in any way it's entirely free to back up the entire thing. (Also, a very handy way to remove viruses.)

Bad sectors aren't a big deal at all. That's why the drive's full size is much larger than what's available. The rest is reserve sectors. (It's a percentage of total disk)

The main issue is Windows doesn't actively monitor SMART data outside of catastrophic failure.

Orpheus, just to be clear: any file can be infected. The only time a file can't be infected (and will likely be targeted next reboot) is if it's actively being used (in which case there's a mutex lock on it)

Any file can have viral data embedded into it. It doesn't have to be an executable. In the end they're all binaries. It doesn't even matter if the file no longer works as it originally was, either, the entire idea is to get the viral data into system memory.

music, video, and image files are the MOST commonly infected files because of the habitual propagation. People don't like deleting their stuff, even if they're formatting the HDD to get rid of a virus smiley

To be blunt, the people who write viruses are pretty smart ... in terms of programming and system security. So, they've thought of pretty much every way possible to get into the system and infect files for exposure. The only real way to prevent getting viruses or a threat of viruses is to never connect the computer to a network or use external data. Other than that, you just face the risk. Get some quality AV protection and don't sweat it.

The handy thing about the better AV programs is if they can't remove it (it'll likely be in use) it has detailed instructions on how to do so, and it's generally really easy.


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: Viral possiblities
Posted by sgtfly on Thu Oct 27th at 12:07pm 2011

AV is essential nowdays agreed, there are so many out there also. There are free ones that give you basic protection, but not all the protection with a full version.
Your isp providers usually offer one free like Norton or McAfee, though Norton is bloatware IMO, and McAfee is is somewhat of a hassle, and I don't recommend them either.
All the ones these guys mentioned are good, I like ESET.
We use it at work and I have it at home, it has a small footprint and doesn't use a ton of resources and does a real good job.
You can't go wrong with any of the ones mentioned.


Light is faster than sound:That is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

Your riches in life are family and friends, everything else is just a distraction.



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 Re: Viral possiblities
Posted by Orpheus on Thu Oct 27th at 2:30pm 2011

I run AVG only. Maybe that's my problem.
I know its only opinion but do you guys have a list of AV from best to worst I can look into.

I have run Norton and McAfee before and quite frankly, they were what turned me against full time AV programs. They are really a bother with certain games.

Anyways, still fishing for info. Should be home tomorrow.. Maybe.



The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Viral possiblities
Posted by Orpheus on Thu Oct 27th at 2:56pm 2011

Another piece to the puzzle. My wife called a pc repair shop and explained the issues. When they found out I am a long haul trucker they mentioned that the vibrations and jostling of the truck on the road is hard on laptops. Now, I know I have never dropped either of my laptops but both have ridden in this truck.

You guys think there might be some truth to this? Its not like they are riding in an unbalanced washing machine but there is always some movement. Hell the truck is air ride. Its always moving even when its setting still and the wind blows.



The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Viral possiblities
Posted by omegaslayer on Thu Oct 27th at 2:57pm 2011

Quoting Orpheus
I run AVG only. Maybe that's my problem.
I know its only opinion but do you guys have a list of AV from best to worst I can look into.

AVG catches as much as M$ Security essentials does, and itsn't bogged down with ads. As for the list, see my post.


Posting And You



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 Re: Viral possiblities
Posted by sgtfly on Thu Oct 27th at 5:09pm 2011

Could well be that might have contributed to your hard drive troubles. Hard drives are sensitiveto to vibration and shock.
The spindles and platters and arms would be the most, the rest is chassis and board.


Light is faster than sound:That is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

Your riches in life are family and friends, everything else is just a distraction.



Quote
 Re: Viral possiblities
Posted by Crono on Thu Oct 27th at 10:38pm 2011

It depends if it was on a lot or not. If the HDD isn't active, the arms should be in a removed locked position (i.e. not hovering over the platters). If they were like that, it'd be unlikely.

To be frank, actually using the HDD is much more physically harmful to the components. It's much more likely that the drive was constantly active when the laptop was on, and it just used the drive more and components fail. It's the nature of physical machinery.

As for why one HDD dries and one doesn't, they're not physically the same device, and drives can't be 100% pure in their manufacturing. Sure there's no large particles of dust or anything inside, but metal materials on that scale aren't exactly the most reliable thing out there.

It just happens. Now, if you violently shake a HDD there's a good chance you'll mess it up, but unless you were actively using the HDD while it was bouncing around in the truck ... I don't really see how it would have effectively caused the issue.

Usually, the arms failing is why a drive dies. Spin motors are pretty faithful ... and the only danger for platters are losing polarization due to magnetic interference or being physically touched either by debris or the heads themselves. The only time the latter happens is if there's a software malfunction and the drive puts the arms out before the disc is up to speed.


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: Viral possiblities
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Oct 28th at 12:55am 2011

Although I never did it with my wife's laptop, I have run mine all day before while driving. See, when I rip an audiobook, I leave the breaks between chapters so its easy to listen to on my radio/mp3 player in the dash of my truck. BUT when the library rips/uploads the audiobooks they remove the breaks. Some disks are an hour long and if for some reason the disk loses its place I have to hold the fast forward to approximately the right time it stopped. This is very difficult to do on a radio. So with my laptop I can scroll to the place in a second.

(Some ripped audiobooks have up to 99 tracks. The library removes them to one track.)



The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Viral possiblities
Posted by Orpheus on Mon Oct 31st at 1:42pm 2011

I ran the Aviro program Omega. It found nothing on my wife's laptop. (better not.. its a new hard drive and a clean install)
It found a few odds and ends on my laptop. I didn't see anything major. (not that I am an expert on major)
It removed everything and the smart drive alert still says my hard drive is fixin to crash.

Should I try/buy anything more powerful to test my laptop with or do you feel this Aviro is powerful enough?



The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Viral possiblities
Posted by sgtfly on Mon Oct 31st at 5:53pm 2011

Avira is in the top ten reviews for AV so It's pretty good stuff. You can try some others if you want to spend the time to.
Maybe Kapersky or Bitdefender, they're the most powerful at finding bad stuff. I'd use the trial versions and just try them to check the drive.



Light is faster than sound:That is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

Your riches in life are family and friends, everything else is just a distraction.




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