The mainstream stereotype of a homosexual is a lifestyle choice. If homosexuality was in all cases totally natural, there would be no reason for gay pride parades, gay rights organizations, etc.
Males are indeed XY. Having extra chromosomes, to my knowledge, does any number of things - the first example I can think of was a kid who was perpetually... 'over-excited', physically and mentally, because he had an extra chromosome.
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| If homosexuality was in all cases totally natural, there would be no reason for gay pride parades, gay rights organizations, etc. |
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| The mainstream stereotype of a homosexual is a lifestyle choice |
| ? posted by scary_jeff |
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Remember winona rider (spelling?)? She was caught shoplifting. She was not punished for this - why? Because they decided that she had an uncontrolable psycological condition.
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Hey! that's called Kleptomania. It DOES exist. But I didn't know wynona rider was a kleptomaniac. haha, sweet 
I think you'll notice, more often than not, with these debates the UK/US cultural divide comes into play.
Take into account each societies culture, then you can make a truly informed and wise statement.
(eg USA = whole lot more religious than UK. ok, religion isnt the debate, but religion set a lot of morals in place (IE anti-homosexuality)
[addsig]
Makes sense when you think about it. after all this country was founded by cast-off religous zealots from Britian.
"a gay person cannot turn love on and off any more than you or I can."
Good point.
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As per his point above, Orphs position is valid. Based on the premise that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, not a genetic characterisitc, he has every right to discriminate against them. His point is not equivilent to racism. |
Good, I'm going to start discriminating against people who choose to listen to country music. Or do they do that because they are inbred, making it a genetic defect and not their fault? 
Heh I need to go back to grad school.
| ? posted by Cassius |
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The mainstream stereotype of a homosexual is a lifestyle choice. If homosexuality was in all cases totally natural, there would be no reason for gay pride parades, gay rights organizations, etc. |
So why don't you "choose" to be gay? Probably because you don't like dick.
Being Black is natural, but I seem to remember a lot of speeches and rallies by some guy named "King" a while back.
having a "right to discriminate" still doesnt make it the right thing to do, nor does it make it true.
t_b, you have gone too far in the opposite direction, vehemently defending orph til the last call when there was a debate in progress.
i think people accept that orph has a point of view, theyre just trying to show their opinion (and the majority opinion) and "enlighten" orph. whether this happens or not is another issue.
but this is democracy! something held very dear to a certain country called the US of A
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I don't find lesbians remotely arousing. I've never understood why most guys do.
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| ? posted by Gwil |
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having a "right to discriminate" still doesnt make it the right thing to do, nor does it make it true. t_b, you have gone too far in the opposite direction, vehemently defending orph til the last call when there was a debate in progress. |
I'm willing to accept that. It was a line of thought I wanted to persue although it is not my own. It's an enjoyable exercise. besides, the world verses Orph seems to happen way to often. I wanted to even up the odds, even if I might have argued against him under different circumstances.
| ? posted by Jinx | ||
Good, I'm going to start discriminating against people who choose to listen to country music. Or do they do that because they are inbred, making it a genetic defect and not their fault? |
You'd be logicaly justified in doing so, assumeing you have a moral predliction gainst country music.
I never siad it was right, only logical. there is a big difference sometimes. However, lets not get intop a definition of "right". I think that thread would be three times as long as this one.
[addsig]Jeff, I wasn't citing the stereotype as anything substantial in the least, only as evidence that there is something of a 'gay lifestyle'. If such a thing did not exist, there would be no Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, perhaps no stereotype of a gay man in general.
Reality creates stereotypes, not the other way around.
My point being that when homosexuality, or to embrace a gay 'lifestyle', is a concious decision, it cannot be defended as being a natural course of action.
That being said, I don't at all believe that most homosexuals follow the pop culture ideal of a gay lifestyle, in the same way that people should not automatically judge Americans from what they see on television.
Jinx, where exactly can I buy that shirt?
Cassius
http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/tshirt.php?sku=a23
I want to get a small of the "Anorexia is Phat" shirt since I'm skinny as hell and people keep bugging me about it.
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Unless Korn is right and there is something (genetic) in your brain, I can't see how being gay is anything other than nurture? |
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Homesexualaltiy CAN happen during the whole birthing process, its all o do with the XX for females and the XY chromosones for males, the body is still the same for the male but with one slight problem, he is born with one extra X chromosone instead of a Y chromosone. [the opposite for females] |
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if my grandson came out, he would indeed fall into the disowned category, that is not my choice, that is how it is. if you think like i do, then it makes sense, he would know up front, and non-negotiable the terms of his decision. again its not up for debate from members of the snarkpit, its how it is in this home. my wife and i are in agreement, and since we are the ones having to pay the price, i feel it is our decision alone, not yours. |
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some men might just be weak minded enuff to not only seek out the counsel of men, but want, (thru the hormonal imbalances of puberty, and ALL the confusing things puberty brings with it), more than just counseling. |
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well jeff i reckon you will 1st need to find some, preferably more than just one, that will admit they were enticed (NOT COERCED as andrew would lead you all to believe ) and ask them to tell you. |
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sounds a tad greedy if you ask me. |
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| ? posted by scary_jeff |
| What I am trying to say is that it is totally wrong when you and Orph say that it is simply a choice that people make - you have nothing to base this on. If you were simply saying this and leaving it at that, then it would not be so bad, but based on this baseless assumption, you are making very strong judgements. |
if this is directed at me Jeff, could you please quote where i stated my opinion one way or another as to what causes someone to be gay. and if possible, where i made any judgements, strong or otherwise, that would warrent my opinion to be considered as nothing but a crock of s**t.
| ? posted by Tracer Bullet |
| but it takes allot of guts to (figuritivly) stand up and say what you have |
I know you probably didnt mean it like this tb but the way you put it it sounds like you think monqui has a desese. Like I said I know you probably didn't mean it and I don't want to sart anything from it I was just pointing it out.
Going back to the original question because I havent given my view on it yet.
I think that gay coupples have just as much right to get married as any other coupple just because there are men or women makes no difference to me as long as there ready for that kind of commitment then good luck to them I say.
I'm persoanly against marrage because most of them get devorced because there not ready to get married they think that they've been together for a certain time so the next thing they have to do is get married and it just ends up killing there relationship and if they have any kids it can screw them up or sometimes it can be a good thing if the parents are staying together just for the child. Any way just gone a little off track there.
and Monqui like tb said it must have taken some guts to come out after some of the things said in this this thread. I applaud you.
[addsig]
Monqui, I'd applaud you, but you need to learn how to use BBcode properly first 
I've ever only known 2 gay people- met both of them this year. One of them has quite obviously come out, everyone knows they're gay, they even write the 'Ask A Queer' column in the UK FHM magazine, and is pretty happy with life and does well for himself. The other guy hasn't come out and I only know in confidence from a close (girl) friend of mine (although I did find it pretty 'obvious'), but he's not a particularly happy bunny as a couple of his friends know and don't cope with it well.
It doesn't bother me that they are gay and I don't act any differently towards them, but I still find the idea of gay sexual acts incredibly repulsive- perhaps that is an important reason people are "opposed" to the idea of being gay? And camp people really piss me off, which doesn't help much either (I'm not equating campness with being gay, but there is correlation)
TBH in all reality, it shouldnt really matter if a person is gay or straight, black or white, etc.
Take them on their level of kindness and humanity, and how they are as a person rather than their lifestyle.
That's how I live anyway One of my ex's was bi 
good post, Monqui.
I posted that pic of those girls partially because of the funny t-shirt, since gamers use the word 'gay' constantly for some reason.
I also posted it because I wondered how many "oh wait lesbians are okay!" responses I would get. There's a rather dumb double-standard I think, since they seem to satisfy the erotic fantasies of male heterosexuals. Lesbians are okay because they are still, in our minds, sex objects. Gay men are horrifying, though, because heterosexual men see the possibility that they could themselves become the objects of a male's sexual desire, ie feminized.
I think a lot of drunk straight girls make out in bars etc., too... again, to please the men they are with. Seriously doubt the girls in that pic are actually gay or bi.
Okay, that's enough dime-store psychology for one post. 
