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Extra 4096 Units on Grid
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 Re: Extra 4096 Units on Grid
Posted by Vash on Fri Mar 19th at 4:42am 2004

Well, I saw This post on VERC forums awhile back, but just got around to actually reading some posts on it now.

Sine ZevenSoft has been sworn to secrecy and cannot tell us, I decided that I am going to try and figure out how to actually do this, and maybe the community will pitch in, and once found we can experiment with it, seeing as Half-Life rather died after Natural-Selection released (In terms of impressing us I mean, I see NS as the last line).

This isnt some hoax either, if you read through the threads, you'll see that someone has done it and posted a picture, and its actually been done in a current (or old, I dont know really) DOD map.

Since I am very bored, and I think a few of you might be..Let's get started . Post all findings, questions, and whatever here.

[addsig]



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 Re: Extra 4096 Units on Grid
Posted by Crono on Fri Mar 19th at 4:44am 2004

here's that 'whatever' you wanted ... [addsig]



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 Re: Extra 4096 Units on Grid
Posted by omegaslayer on Fri Mar 19th at 4:50am 2004

Man it just like that joke: how many forum posters does it take to screw in a light bulb?(with so many people talking all the frikin' time)

But in response to the topic: That person probably wasn't using ZHLT compile tools (Q2 possibly) because I cant get past csg w/o something comming up saying: brush #378092387 was out of bounds at 8372, 2132, -827132.

just my 2c

[addsig]



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 Re: Extra 4096 Units on Grid
Posted by Vash on Fri Mar 19th at 4:54am 2004

I compiled 64 units away from the outside, no problems. I had a func_door leave the 4096 units, no problem..(Well it didnt render). And no, this isnt a case of using bad compile tools, the creator of ZHLT (Meryll) posts some stuff about it, not saying its true, nor saying its false (I think). [addsig]



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 Re: Extra 4096 Units on Grid
Posted by Cassius on Fri Mar 19th at 5:03am 2004

I knew Zeven for a while, I wouldn't put this past him - he's made some excellent technology in the past. His terrain generator was used by Valve in de_chateau.





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 Re: Extra 4096 Units on Grid
Posted by omegaslayer on Fri Mar 19th at 5:03am 2004

I really dont care

Im board thats why im sticking around here waiting for "Tripping the rift" to come on, check.......1hr 30 min. Why would anyone want to compile a map that massive to where it will utilize every space possible? the csg would take an hour to do alone, and I dont even want to think about rad!

[addsig]



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 Re: Extra 4096 Units on Grid
Posted by Vash on Fri Mar 19th at 5:04am 2004

Think of the possibilities. Like, big mountians and such outside the map, not taking up grid space, and cannot be touched nor examed closely, therefore you wont have many errors. [addsig]



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 Re: Extra 4096 Units on Grid
Posted by Cassius on Fri Mar 19th at 5:05am 2004

This is mainly for NS maps, where they're consistently pushing HL's limit.

[EDIT] And yes, dog1 did it, they had a stretch of road that went past the grid. It was lit slightly darker than the rest of the map. [/EDIT]

[addsig]



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 Re: Extra 4096 Units on Grid
Posted by Crono on Fri Mar 19th at 5:07am 2004

Who cares about how long your map takes to compile?

Run time is what is important. Always, run time. If you do it right you wont have to re-compile the thing ever. Also, you can look at it this way, at least it isn't in Fortran (Note* Fortran compilers take 8 hours to compile anything with punch cards, and yes they're numbered lol).

I think it's odd that mappers complain about compile time though. Because that's a one time deal. Anyway, I'm not sure how to get it to render outside the grid either .... hmm. [addsig]



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 Re: Extra 4096 Units on Grid
Posted by Vash on Fri Mar 19th at 5:13am 2004

Also, Be sure to checkup on This thread sometimes too, I posted it on Vlatitude . [addsig]



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 Re: Extra 4096 Units on Grid
Posted by Crono on Fri Mar 19th at 5:40am 2004

whoa ... okay. Try this on for size.

Here is a screen shot of the map (which Vash sent me) in Hammer:



Here is the map in game



Here is what happens when I walk to the end of the ground (which is only 1 unit away from the sky box)



Also, take note on that I had to use the original compile tools for it to compile it also, technically didn't compile, I got a billion errors about the map being outside of the world (or whatever error the default csg gives). Yet, it still produced the final BSP.

weird.

[EDIT]
The moving platform in developer mode moves to that point and stops. In multiplayer mode it doesn't move at all it starts in that stopped position.
[/EDIT] [addsig]



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 Re: Extra 4096 Units on Grid
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Fri Mar 19th at 6:40am 2004

What's the point? who in their right mind would want to make a map bigger than the grid with the limmitations HL has on the size of any single area? [addsig]



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 Re: Extra 4096 Units on Grid
Posted by Crono on Fri Mar 19th at 6:46am 2004

That's what I thought as well, but I guess in development for the UP mod and I think Myrk as well, has made maps as big (at least) as the grid size, and they ran fine ... but I was just told this tonight, so I have no idea if it's true or if there's some sort of hidden factor in it all. [addsig]



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 Re: Extra 4096 Units on Grid
Posted by $loth on Fri Mar 19th at 6:50am 2004

there is no point really,IMO theres enough space on the WC grid anyway [addsig]



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 Re: Extra 4096 Units on Grid
Posted by Crono on Fri Mar 19th at 6:56am 2004

nah, I always wanted to map ... new york lol. (just kidding)

The point is though, that if we can push the limits of the already limited engine to have better game play then why not? I mean, in case someone wants to build a map with an enormous exteriour, just because you wouldn't use it doesn't mean someone else wouldn't. It's kind of like the carve tool. A lot of people still use it even though they're techically not "suppose to". but on that note, valve didn't leave it in the editor by accident lol.

It's just a new limit, which I think is pretty cool. it gives the ability (as Vash mentioned) to have detailed external areas with no player access, meaning it can only be viewed from one specific spot (because it is off in the distance, or something like that) you wouldn't have to render complex faces 'behind the scenes' so to speak.

Just use your imagination, I can think of all sorts of crap this would be used for ...

However, the fact that it's beginning to emerge at this point in time is sad.

But like that poll on who would map for HL1 still, many people would probably really like to have this ability (and have it be reliable) anyway, I've rambled long enough. [addsig]



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 Re: Extra 4096 Units on Grid
Posted by $loth on Fri Mar 19th at 8:34am 2004

? quote:

Just use your imagination, I can think of all sorts of crap this would be used for ...

something along the lines of a huge bridge but you cant acces it? [addsig]



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 Re: Extra 4096 Units on Grid
Posted by Jinx on Fri Mar 19th at 8:36am 2004

the grid is plenty big enough for HL's limitations. the stuff Vash is talking about doing wouldn't work anyway since HL can't push enough polies to do mountains etc. in the background. basically HL is crap for making large open spaces, so having a huge mapspace isn't really that useful. I don't think even the HL2 mapspace is all that big compared to other new games.



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 Re: Extra 4096 Units on Grid
Posted by scary_jeff on Fri Mar 19th at 10:24am 2004

Surely when you get errors during the compile, that's jsut because that's how they wrote the compiler. Surely there will be some bit of code in the compiler itself that decides more than 4096 is an error - couldn't you change this bit of code, then recompile the compiler, then copile your map?



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 Re: Extra 4096 Units on Grid
Posted by Crono on Fri Mar 19th at 10:37am 2004

Probably. Got a copy of the ZHLT source? lol
Not that I know the slightest thing about programming this sort of stuff. But if I saw a magic number I'd be sure to up it lol. (With reasonable cause of course. [addsig]



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 Re: Extra 4096 Units on Grid
Posted by Vash on Fri Mar 19th at 12:25pm 2004

Im not trying to do this because I want to use it..Im doing it for fun, and as me and myrk- were discussing a few days ago, not a damn thing impresses me in the HL engine. Wether is a fantastic looking map, great use of models, or whatever, when I saw NS maps, those were the last things to impress me in Half-Life. Now tha I learned this MIGHT be possible, I am going to try to do it. Who gives a f**k if you'll never find a chance to use it or whatever, at least we'll know we found another way to exploit the HL engine to make it not look as bad as it already is =/. [addsig]




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