Bulit into this thread are assumptions about the geometry of space.  It is tacitly assumed, by many people, that space is a Euclidean geometry.  They don't have to know what a Euclidean geometry actually is to make this assumption - there are all sorts of natural geometrical assumptions that we make without knowing anything about mathematical geometry.

Basically, a Euclidean geometry is flat.  Why shouldn't we live in a curved space?  Why not in a closed space (like the surface of a sphere)?

In fact, there seems to be overwhelming evidence that we do not inhabit a Euclidean space, but rather a space that exhibits at least some local curvature.  Why not global curvature too?  How could we observe this?

The cosmic and the quantum are actually very dissimilar- electrons don't really 'spin' (kind of..) or 'orbit' a nucleus, and on that scale there are 3 'strong' fundamental forces acting (unlike it being really just gravity on the cosmic scale). Although it is interesting to note that we're 'in the middle' of the scale

And Gollum, I'd like to see this "overwhelming" evidence for there being some local curvature, I wasn't aware there was any (barring black holes and whatnot deforming space). For the global curvature, cosmic background radiation tells us it's pretty flat, but I guess since we've only existed long enough to get a single 'snapshot' of the universe we can't really tell without making a whole tonne of dodgy assumptions..!

Believing in something is beyond reason, when you get down to the deepest, most driving parts of the soul. What I can't stand for the life of me is when people talk about the meaning of reality, the existence of God, and they start talking evolution.

To which I ask - what part of the evolutionary process explains why sentience was first developed? (Adult) Animals and plants continue today with two basic instincts, to live and to make life. Humanity's forefathers lasted thousands of years without a thought in their mind save judging the distance to the next branch.

Finger is right. Parallels are found all across the world, except with humans. There is nothing on the Earth that can match the wonder and the meaning of a single human thought.

Sorry, I have to continue this post later, I have to leave ATM...

Cassius, you're assuming animals and our distant ancestors aren't sentient, by which most people mean having a consciousness, being self-aware. I'd have thought that the simple answer to your question is that all animals, and maybe other animal kingdoms, have some level of consciousness and that the things that go with it- cooperation with other beings, being able to predict what may happen and respond accordingly, being able to 'act against nature' to some degree, etc.- will give those animals an edge over others, it's certainly worked for us!

Apologies if I'm sounding like a 'know it all' now, just I've been there/got the T-shirt with these convos many times :-x

A dog can become lonely, as can a person. A person becomes lonely because 99.9% of the people on Earth require companionship to live, but a dog becomes lonely because deep down in it's mind, there is a sticky note saying that "if there is nobody else around to help you hunt, you will die".

These feelings probably stem from the same root, back millions upon millions of years ago when both species were mice hiding under rocks. However, while humans developed civillizations and societies, dulling down their raw instincts in some areas, dogs lived in the wild up until relatively recently.

To be continued again, unfortunately D:

Ok I'm confused now, is there a difference between what you're saying and Euclidean Geometry? We're pretty damn sure the Universe as flat as Kansas (i.e. more so than a pancake)- e.g. Universe 'proven flat', or even better, Boomerang backs flat universe

Anyway, open/closed universes, inflation theory, dark matter etc. etc. are much more interesting than nebulae and you can probably go further in your physics project with them