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Recently watched
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 Re: Recently watched
Posted by Leperous on Sat Apr 3rd at 1:11pm 2004

Oooh, Laputa was good, the robots in it are responsible for destroying my childhood and giving me nightmares.



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 Re: Recently watched
Posted by ReNo on Sat Apr 3rd at 1:19pm 2004

Typically anime is defined by its visual style; a style found in cartoons originating from Japan for the most part. Western cartoons have a look that is pretty easy to differentiate from anime, as the below examples show...

CARTOON...

ANIME...

CARTOON...

ANIME...

Obviously there are a lot of western cartoons these days that emulate the style that was always associated with japanese anime, and as such some are hard to tell apart on visual merits alone.

Hellboy looks like it should be a s**t film, but it has Selma Blair in it...I'll prolly watch it sometime, but not in the cinema. Even her being in it cant convince me it will be worth the cash!

[addsig]



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 Re: Recently watched
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Apr 3rd at 1:27pm 2004

i'm sorry duncan, all i see are four screens, 1 old,2 new,3 old,and 4 new.

now if you had posted 4 screens from say 2000 and up?

i admit, you did narrow the field a bit, but all i saw was age related comparisons, 2 very old screens, and 2 quite new ones.

we are still left with, what is anime, and what is cartoon.. i think its going to boil down to more personal preference as in "i only watch anime, never cartoons" so the person convinces themselves that the movie is indeed anime, and not really a cartoon, in essence, denial.

personally i think my problem is, i do not watch anime much, if ever, i watch cartoons, mostly cause of my grandson now.. but my youngest son watches anime i guess, and what i have seen is all crap (DBZ comes to mind)

now, if you count auto-bots, transformers.. i used to watch the hell out of those.. not much humor in those old shows.. prehistoric anime perhaps

[addsig]



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 Re: Recently watched
Posted by ReNo on Sat Apr 3rd at 1:51pm 2004

I think Transformers would count as an anime, it certainly originated from Japan. I think due to its popularity it was classed as a cartoon, perhaps due to the fact that anime in general wasn't really known in the west at that point, certainly not to the extent it is now.

I had a load of trouble finding pictures of cartoons, hence the age of those cartoon pictures, its about all I could find! Rugrats (the third picture) isn't that old though, and while that is most likely an old picture, the series is, I believe, still going and looks much the same.

[addsig]



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 Re: Recently watched
Posted by diablo on Sat Apr 3rd at 1:56pm 2004

Anime is just a style of animation.





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 Re: Recently watched
Posted by Diarmaidx2 on Sat Apr 3rd at 4:05pm 2004

anime has better background and water effects. as shown in the 4 pic's.
but heay, im no expert.
back on topic, anyone seen passion of the christ yet? might see it today.



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 Re: Recently watched
Posted by Kage_Prototype on Sat Apr 3rd at 4:51pm 2004

It's hard to distinguish between western and eastern cartoons (visual style alone is not enough), so the best way is to simply watch more of it. Films like Ghost In The Shell, Akira, and Princess Mononoke, and serie slike Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Love Hina, Evangelion and Tenchi. I'm not that large an anime enthusiast, so perhaps someone can give better examples.

Oh, and as for water effects, the part in Ghost In The Shell, where they fight in the pool of water near the beginning, is an amazing piece of wizardry. [addsig]



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 Re: Recently watched
Posted by Crono on Sat Apr 3rd at 7:20pm 2004

Actually, it turns out that Tezuka (creator of Astro Boy, which is anime) modeled his style after Disney, thus the commonly large eyes. But the main way you can tell, Orph, is if it's in Japanese or not, that's a dead give away.

Anime is short for Japanese Animation, that's it. A cartoon is USA animated. Seconly I'm not seperating MYSELF from cartoons, I love cartoons as well, however, I don't think anime and cartoons are the same thing. But then again I also don't think a movie and a film are the same thing.

The only confusion that will come into play now is that most american cartoons have been sent over to Japan to be animated (however, if you have an eye for it you can tell the difference). Such as all the Batman cartoons (the ones from the 90's on) were animated in Japan (thus the Japanese all over the buildings in Batman Beyond).

But seriously, you say you've seen serious cartoons? Well, think about this, I don't consider 'Heavy Metal' to be a cartoon, and that IS american made. See it if you want to see what I'm talking about ... but it's rated R, so take a hint lol.
I would think of that as an Animated Movie, nothing more, nothing less.

A cartoon, used as slang or not, implies a lot of things: 1) Childish in humour (however most looney tunes were aimed at adults in the 40s and 50s). 2) SHORT, 5-7 minutes per episode tops. 3) Not Japanese.

I know that third one sounds a little weird. But you must understand that form of entertainment is very revered. I mean, studios (and people) don't nessesarily see a difference between their live actions films and thier animated films. Ghost in the Shell for example, didn't it take like 20 million to make?

Saying these are cartoons is actually pretty biased and ignorant, and I know you pointed that out before, but now it seems like you're trying to make an argument out of it or something.
Obviously you can't see them as any other way then a Cartoon, because of where you grew up (as most people can't). But if you watched enough of it you'd see amazing differences, when it's done well.

On another note, I hated Love Hina.

Some series' you might like, Orph (as shown in picture four of Reno's post) is Noir. It's pretty awesome. Basically it's about here and another girl whom are assassins. I can't really explain a lot about it, you should see it if you want to know about it.

Trigun is alright ... I think it's overrated, it seems to be a lot of people's 'transitional' anime. Meaning that's a show that gets them 'into' anime.

Cowboy Bebop deserves attention, and even though just about everyone's seen it now, and wont shut the hell up about it, it's still a very good series.

As for Movies, the 'modern classics' are a good start: Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Vampire Hunter D 2 (the first one sort of blows, this is an example on compilations, since the guy who directed it, I can't remember his name, he also wrote it, is Japanese, as in, he doesn't really speak english, this is Anime, not to mention his drawing style is seen throughout the movie. However, it's ONLY in english ...), I belive you've seen this: Blood. It's good, but short, and again, part of a 'new wave' of english dialoged anime.

Anyway, just don't get suckered into watching Gundam ... ew. There's only two series (out of god knows how many) that I enjoyed: 0083. and 08th MS team.

Anyway, I've typed enough. [addsig]



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 Re: Recently watched
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Apr 3rd at 8:08pm 2004

crono, don't confuse my genuine ignorance, with argumentatively..

if i re-ask, or repeat myself, its not to start a fight, but to clarify a point.

i think the problem lies in the fact, that i have zero information to draw from.. i recognized, "princess mononoke" "DBZ" and "Gundam" .. thats it, and i have only watched the princess one, as the other 2 blew massive chunks IMO..

i think i will avoid anime if those are examples, and wait for mononoke 2 to come out.

*turns video tape of dinosaur back on*

and i will stick with cartoons

[addsig]



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 Re: Recently watched
Posted by Kage_Prototype on Sat Apr 3rd at 8:15pm 2004

? quote:
i think i will avoid anime if those are examples, and wait for mononoke 2 to come out.


Wait...confusion. If DBZ and Gundam are examples? Or what Crono said are examples? Because DBZ and Gundam are pretty damn crap compared to some of the stuff Crono mentioned. [addsig]



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 Re: Recently watched
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Apr 3rd at 8:33pm 2004

? posted by Kage_Prototype
? quote:
i think i will avoid anime if those are examples, and wait for mononoke 2 to come out.


Wait...confusion. If DBZ and Gundam are examples? Or what Crono said are examples? Because DBZ and Gundam are pretty damn crap compared to some of the stuff Crono mentioned.

*scratches buttocks*

kage, you are confusing me now..

allow me to reiterate, if DBZ and Gundam are examples of anime, i think i will pass.

if mononoke is as well, *shrugs* it was great stuff, but i doubt i will search around looking for more of its calibre.

[addsig]



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 Re: Recently watched
Posted by KungFuSquirrel on Sat Apr 3rd at 8:37pm 2004

Anime's big feature over any other style of animation is that the good is still good, but the bad stuff seems to be exponentially worse than the average level of 'bad' in any other medium. There is some really good stuff out there (very little of which I have seen), but it's easily brushed aside by some of the pure crap that permeates through the entire genre. [addsig]



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 Re: Recently watched
Posted by Crono on Sat Apr 3rd at 8:55pm 2004

Yep.

Dude, Orph, just watch a few episodes of Noir, I'm sure you can find some Torrents or even some of the episodes on Kazaa (just to preview, if you like them go buy the DVDs )

It's a damn good show.

To be honest, I liked Dragon Ball/Z a while ago. However, I was a fan of the manga first and The 'filler' crap is annoying as hell, so I pretty much ignored the series all together, that and seeing as how it's being marketed to 5 year olds ... well. The weird thing is, that show was meant for children, however, it's massivly edited for american television (and Funimation blows at Dubbing). I can't think of any good 'introductory' series and movies though. Those are pretty much the ones (the ones I mentioned earlier) that get people hooked. Mononoke is actually pretty mild in content (not story) compared to other anime. Some might be seen as weird or something as such, but, its usually good, and like KFS said, the bad is REALLY bad *cough* Pokemon *cough*. You know it's really sad that that show is based off of the card game ... which is based off the video game ... which isn't based on anything. But, Another pretty good OAV is Angle Cop. the animation is okay by anime standards, but its pretty old, but good, just ... reframe from watching dubbed versions, since until Disney set a standard for dubbing with Mononoke dubbing was pretty bad. A few other OAVs that are good are: Aritage the Third (the actual 4 episode OAV, not the 90 minutes cut up movie), and Iria: The Ziram Animation.

Once you like some of this stuff you'll probably want to check out: Lain, Boogipop Phantom, and FLCL. Some people I know like Samurai X (just a secondary series to Kenshin, which happens to be more violent lol).

Other then that ... There are movies, which are all up to you, I mentioned a few earlier some other goodies are: Metropolis (depressing though, so watch out), X (Depressing as well, the series looks better though, since 2 hours is no where near the amount of time that Clamp's work deserves), I know some people who like Ninja Scroll, however the only thing this movie has is good animation and lots and lots of fighting, the story is ... lacking to say the least, but it's worth a view. Basically stay away from some stuff that has been picked up for American Television (except Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, and FLCL, because they're actually good).

If you actually watch this stuff you might even begin to recognize styles and such ... I can anyway.

[EDIT]
Whoa, how could I forget, the Battle Angle OAV is good as well (only 2 episodes though)
[/EDIT] [addsig]



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 Re: Recently watched
Posted by scary_jeff on Sat Apr 3rd at 9:45pm 2004

Having funny portions doesn't make anime a cartoon any more than something that makes you laugh in 'the matrix' means the matrix is a comedy. A cartoon sets out to be funny... you say you are confused by the difference, well here it is, if the point of the animation is to be funny, it's a cartoon. If it's not, it isn't. Take the example of transformers - this obviously does not set out to be funny, therefore it does not come under 'cartoon'. I did not know this until I investigated, but now I know what 'cartoon' really means, I am happy to accept the new definition.



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 Re: Recently watched
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Apr 3rd at 9:52pm 2004

let me try once more, for jeffery.

i comprehend that cartoon = comedy/humor/funny

i comprehend that anime = drama/serious

but as with movies, there are other genre's, this is where i am getting lost. what if its a western ( i dunno if there are western anime/cartoons or not its an example ) is there yet again another subsection of animated art to encompass these?

i guess the question is, is all anime, of japanese origin? and what do you call a cartoonish creation, that is neither anime(by definition) or cartoon(by definition)

[addsig]



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 Re: Recently watched
Posted by Crono on Sat Apr 3rd at 10:16pm 2004

? quote:

i guess the question is, is all anime, of japanese origin?

Yes! I also said that earlier

? quote:

and what do you call a cartoonish creation, that is neither anime(by definition) or cartoon(by definition)


Animation .... ? Dude, Orph, anime is the ONLY style that has it's own name. But personally, the only thing I'd call a 'cartoon' would be American cartoons: Loony Toones, MGM shorts, Roger Rabbit shorts.

But things like Disney movies I'd call animations. To me "Cartoon"s major meaning is SHORT, like a TV show or something. Full Lenth features have way too much talent and meaning to be labeled a 'cartoon'. But that's just me.

But, yes, anime means Japanese Animation, as in originated there. But now it's turning into Japanese Directed. Such that, if the director of some animation project is from Japan (as in the most likely still live there) then you'll see heavy influences of Japanese animation and culture in their work.

Something else is, if you see an animation of some sort and you know it isn't disney, and the animation is very good, look at the production team names, chances are it was animated in Japan.

Also, CG movies are neither cartoon or anime. They're ... CG. really anime is the only specific style catagory. [addsig]



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 Re: Recently watched
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Apr 3rd at 10:30pm 2004

/me capitulates and acquiesce, rolls over, and exposes tender underbelly.

thanx guys..

[addsig]



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 Re: Recently watched
Posted by scary_jeff on Sat Apr 3rd at 10:32pm 2004

? quote:
and what do you call a cartoonish creation, that is neither anime(by definition) or cartoon(by definition)


I don't know. I suppose there could well be completely different types of animation that none of us have seen... But I don't see how that matters, the lack of other genres doesn't make anime a cartoon.

Actually, I'm not even sure what the debate is now that you have said you see the distinction between anime and cartoons, after earlier saying "cartoon or anime, its all apples and oranges to me".



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 Re: Recently watched
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Apr 3rd at 10:35pm 2004

read above post jeffery [addsig]



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 Re: Recently watched
Posted by Crono on Sat Apr 3rd at 11:08pm 2004

Now go watch Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Noir, and FLCL [addsig]




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