r_speeds limit
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Re: r_speeds limit
Posted by Crono on Sat Apr 3rd at 11:12pm 2004


Billy Dee Williams.

Believe me, if you saw some of his other stuff you wouldn't see him as 'Lando'.

Kind of like I don't see Harrison Ford as 'Han'. Instead I see him as a bad actor that thinks he's too good to play the role that made his career. I mean, when was the last time you say Ford in anything that was really good? and then think of the amount of movies he's done total ... count the good ones ... the ratio isn't very impressive.

Orph, I've never heard of anyone using the term "buddy" to mean homosexual that's bizarre and I live here! [addsig]




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Re: r_speeds limit
Posted by Gorbachev on Sat Apr 3rd at 11:16pm 2004


I try to have wpoly below 800 at all times. I do my best to lower any area back below this. [addsig]



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Re: r_speeds limit
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Apr 3rd at 11:17pm 2004


i like all harrison ford films, since indiana jones.. his han solo bit was iffy..

and the word "buddy" is only in trucking circles, by that definition.. i am unsure outside of it to be honest.

another that come to mind are "turtle hull" its the trunk on your car.

[addsig]




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Re: r_speeds limit
Posted by scary_jeff on Sat Apr 3rd at 11:18pm 2004


Oh I'm sure he's a perfectly good actor, I just haven't seen enough of him playing other carachters. And I like Harrison ford. Everyone says he's not a good actor, which probably is true, I just always like the guy that Ford plays... it's always a decent guy who stands up to some kind of adversity and does the right thing. *waits for everyone to jump in with films where he didn't play such a role*

[edit] If somebody said to me 'turtle hull', I would think they meant a mottled green boat hull. That's probably not what the average UK person would think though. [/edit]




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Re: r_speeds limit
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Apr 3rd at 11:21pm 2004


? posted by scary_jeff
Oh I'm sure he's a perfectly good actor, I just haven't seen enough of him playing other carachters. And I like Harrison ford. Everyone says he's not a good actor, which probably is true, I just always like the guy that Ford plays... it's always a decent guy who stands up to some kind of adversity and does the right thing. *waits for everyone to jump in with films where he didn't play such a role*

"what lies beneath", was most definately NOT a ford sterotypical role bud :/

[addsig]




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Re: r_speeds limit
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Apr 4th at 12:51am 2004


another word from across the pond..

"Delbert" it translates roughly to dumbs**t, or retard

[addsig]




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Re: r_speeds limit
Posted by Skeletor on Sun Apr 4th at 1:07am 2004


? posted by Orpheus

"what lies beneath", was most definately NOT a ford sterotypical role bud :/

Are you calling him a homosexual?





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Re: r_speeds limit
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Apr 4th at 1:18am 2004


? posted by Skeletor
? posted by Orpheus

"what lies beneath", was most definitely NOT a ford stereotypical role bud :/

Are you calling him a homosexual?

actually no, in truckers lingo, buddy is gay, but bud, was shortened to differentiate the two..

buddy, didn't used to mean homosexual, but through means unknown to myself, the term went from a form of friendship, to its present unsavory term.

anywho's, this all happen before my time.. i am just stuck with the current definitions.

"bud" and "reckon" are both widely used on the CB

[addsig]




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Re: r_speeds limit
Posted by fishy on Sun Apr 4th at 1:34am 2004


? posted by Gorbachev
I try to have wpoly below 800 at all times. I do my best to lower any area back below this.

YOUR ATTEMPT AT DE-RAILING THE THREAD FAILED GORBI





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Re: r_speeds limit
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Apr 4th at 1:42am 2004


? posted by fishy
? posted by Gorbachev
I try to have wpoly below 800 at all times. I do my best to lower any area back below this.

YOUR ATTEMPT AT DE-RAILING THE THREAD FAILED GORBI

you know butthole, that tid-bit would have went alllll day and no one would have said a thing..

*taps foots*

some people *incert eye rolls here*

[addsig]




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Re: r_speeds limit
Posted by Gorbachev on Sun Apr 4th at 1:58am 2004


Just added my 2 cents.

As for "buddy" I don't know of it as a homosexual reference unless you add the prefix "bum" then yes it is. To me it's just a hilarious reference as this crazy punjabi guy in my socials class last year would claim to my friend and I "Buddy, you're stupid, you don't know anything." As he somehow gave us a logic that by his failing he's doing well in grade 12. So my friends and I always get each others' attention by exclaiming "Buddy!" in a punjabi accent.

[addsig]



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Re: r_speeds limit
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Apr 4th at 2:03am 2004


you never know gorb.. there are a bunch of Canadian truckers down here.. the version you mention, might have had its origins from the truckers.

there are a lot of cruel words to describe homo's, buddy, is one of the least offensive i have heard.

does Canada, have any obscure Canadian words???

[addsig]




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Re: r_speeds limit
Posted by Edge Damodred on Sun Apr 4th at 2:50am 2004


? posted by Orpheus

the fact, that some dingbat (wonders if dingbat is another UK cussword )wasted a vote, by selecting the 5000 option, tells me we have little real use for a polling system

seems to me, that if its that unimportant to someone, why bother :/

YES!!! Someone commented on that!!!

Actually, the whole r_speed issue really is too specific for gauging performance, like what's been said earlier, framerate is truly the "better" estimate. One reason that certain area can get away with higher w_polies can be acredited to many factors, here's some of the higher ones.

Context/Texture changes- Areas that have fewer amounts of textures in the region will definitely perform better because there's a bottleneck when the renderer has to change textures. This is actually a biggie, and it's one of the reasons why Q3 was able to get way with fairly detailed terrain maps Team Arena. Again, this is not specific to the HL engine, any engine worth anything this should definitely improve performance.

BSP Tree construction- This mainly has to deal with the leaf nodes created when the map compiles. It's kinda hard for mappers control this, although editors have given more and more control over this. Basically, the world divided into series of bounding boxes called vis portals, these create the Potential Visibility Set. These portals are stored in the leaf nodes of the tree. First the engine determines which portal the camera's in, then it determines what nodes are potentially visible from that node. From there, it gets a much smaller set of geometry and can remove a lot the unseen geometry from there. The less nodes made, the less paths the engine has to search for PV nodes, thus increasing performance.

Entity/Static Polygons- This one's pretty simple. BSP geometry is rather slow(but accurate for collision detection). The reason it's slow is because the engine has to send geometry to the video card one face/polygon at a time due to both texture coordinate difference and lightmap(textures that simulate light) coordinates. Entity and Static polies render much faster since they can send all polygons and texture coordinates to the video card at once. The video card likes things in batches, the more you give it at once honestly, the better, it reduces the amount of transfers going through the AGP(going from the vid card to CPU/RAM is even slower).

Those are probably the three major factors behind performance, and why r_speeds honestly never was a good measurement of performance, it was just used as a tool to where to start looking for improvements.

That's kinda why I did put 5000, because theoretically, the engine might perform great if you really know how to work within those bounds.

[addsig]




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Re: r_speeds limit
Posted by Crono on Sun Apr 4th at 3:03am 2004


I always wondered, what tree structure does BSP use (BST, 234, AVL, etc...) ?

I've got to take me some linear albegra so I can jump in to this stuff at my school. [addsig]




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Re: r_speeds limit
Posted by Edge Damodred on Sun Apr 4th at 3:06am 2004


A Binary Tree. Another spliting plane's either in front of or behind it's parent node's spliting plane.

[addsig]



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Re: r_speeds limit
Posted by Crono on Sun Apr 4th at 3:54am 2004


? quote:
A Binary Tree. Another spliting plane's either in front of or behind it's parent node's spliting plane.


...wait, so you usually use a tree of trees for the bsp/face spliting??

I thought that some of the other algorithms for trees were more efficient ... hmm.

I guess a programmer would shoot themselves if they had to create the bsp structure using AVL or something like that (it would also run slow if the balancing was done durring runtime, however if it wasn't it might be more efficient and reliable in the speed area) [addsig]




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Re: r_speeds limit
Posted by Leperous on Sun Apr 4th at 4:53am 2004


? posted by Orpheus

actually no, in truckers lingo, buddy is gay, but bud, was shortened to differentiate the two..

Don't tell me you bus drivers are wannabe-truckers





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Re: r_speeds limit
Posted by JFry on Sun Apr 4th at 5:35am 2004


I put 1000 but I view r_speeds simpy as a guideline and not the final word on how smooth it will be. For example lets say you put a few high w_poly pillars in a very small room and give everything the same texture. Chances are it will still render fast because there isn't much to do besides draw the cylinders. Now imagine a huge area with lots and lots of cubes all with different textures. Even if the r_speeds are lower in the cube area it will render slower because of the wide open space and the many textures. And I've never heard of buddy meaning gay but thanks for the tip PAL!





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Re: r_speeds limit
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Apr 4th at 10:21am 2004


? posted by Leperous
? posted by Orpheus

actually no, in truckers lingo, buddy is gay, but bud, was shortened to differentiate the two..

Don't tell me you bus drivers are wannabe-truckers

sometimes lep, you're worse than i am.

what do you think i was, before i started delivering busses silly.

my CDL's are still current.. i went to college (stop glaring asswipe), actually got credits and everything, just to learn how to drive semi-trucks.

was an 8 week course, but was fun.

? posted by JFry

I put 1000 but I view r_speeds simpy as a guideline and not the final word on how smooth it will be. For example lets say you put a few high w_poly pillars in a very small room and give everything the same texture. Chances are it will still render fast because there isn't much to do besides draw the cylinders. Now imagine a huge area with lots and lots of cubes all with different textures. Even if the r_speeds are lower in the cube area it will render slower because of the wide open space and the many textures.

ain't been mapping long have you? else, haven't released much.

[addsig]




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Re: r_speeds limit
Posted by scary_jeff on Sun Apr 4th at 1:06pm 2004


I think in theory, if you built two complicated areas, using one texture, that both had the exact same wpoly in them (say 1500), but one had only square faces, and one had only triangle faces, the one with the triangle faces could be rendered at a higher framerate, because there would be only 75% of the data to process for each scene.




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