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Contest Rules
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 Re: Contest Rules
Posted by Cassius on Sun Apr 25th at 3:21pm 2004

My reluctant entry: The Ribcage. Like CJ's it looks much better ingame too. Though the r's are dangriss up/down where I screenshotted from, when you're in the 'playing' area it only hits 1000 once.

[addsig]



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 Re: Contest Rules
Posted by Kain on Sun Apr 25th at 3:24pm 2004

? posted by ReNo
Rendering my maps with RAD gives identical visuals to rendering without actually, and no, you don't get lost in it whatsoever, its feels just as logical to move around in as any maps I've ever played.



Does it really look that confusing to your eyes? No shadows, but perfectly playable.

No, this one's not; but Campaign Junkie's pic is confusing; nice but confusing. While i still think it's an interesting idea, i'm just expressing my doubts; i've drawn a hundred real architecture projects at univ, and when i don't have time to make the shadows, the 3d impression is f**ked, so... Anyway, i voted for "themed" coz i like stories, but if it's a flatshaded contest i'll still be glad to participate.>>





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 Re: Contest Rules
Posted by Cassius on Sun Apr 25th at 7:22pm 2004

I think all of the entries so far that are truly flatshaded (err... mine and CJ's) look confusing in pictures, but when you move around the level and see objects in 3D you begin to recognize and remember shapes and landmarks.

Reno's map is the best thing to come as a result of the Wind Waker

What's the r_speed limit for the contest?





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 Re: Contest Rules
Posted by ReNo on Sun Apr 25th at 7:35pm 2004

To be honest, only mine is true to the real concept of flatshading. The real idea is using the surface normal of a polygon in relation to the directon of the light (or position of the light source) to determine how it is lit, and then lighting the entire surface uniformly based on this calculation. Only my map actually uses different colours based on the angle the polygon is facing, to give a sense of highlights and shadowing.

Of course I know what you mean though - the technical definition of flatshading, and the definition we tend to use in mapping, are really rather different. Yours, CJ's and Adam's are the only three that really fit in with that.

Oh and I didn't really comment on your map - is it really like a map, or more a single structure? It looks to me like a rather complex (and damned funky) piece of architecture, but not a series or rooms or even an environment you can use for fighting...but then these screenshots are really rather confusing

As for the contest, it isn't even officially decided if this is the theme, so the r_speeds haven't been discussed! Lep, hurry up and decide if there is gonna be a contest and what the theme is would you [addsig]



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 Re: Contest Rules
Posted by Cassius on Sun Apr 25th at 7:37pm 2004

Your map also uses fade textures and those clouds, making it not flat shaded in the same way as mine - doesn't make a real big difference though. I'm going to need to spice up my map if it's going to compete with yours.

[addsig]



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 Re: Contest Rules
Posted by ReNo on Sun Apr 25th at 7:42pm 2004

Yeah you certainly have a point about the fades, they are a bit of a cheat I could have used a series of greys to fake one manually, but I felt it would be a waste of polys and probably look s**t. I guess even having the lighthouses on in the day time doesn't make sense, but I felt it added a little bit of interest to the scene.

The clouds are just part of the skybox...if the contest dictated the skybox had to be flatshaded, I'm not sure if it would be legal or not anyway! It is made up of flat blocks of colour only, so I guess it might be justifiable [addsig]



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 Re: Contest Rules
Posted by Campaignjunkie on Sun Apr 25th at 7:50pm 2004

? posted by Cassius

I'm going to need to spice up my map if it's going to compete with yours.

Oh, you're not worried about my map, eh? I'll show you! I'll show ALL of you!!

[addsig]



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 Re: Contest Rules
Posted by Adam Hawkins on Sun Apr 25th at 9:32pm 2004

Heh, Cassius' map looks like a giant squid or something
I agree with ReNo that it could benefit from a 3rd colour to define it a little better, though like you said, it's probably much easier to find your way round in-game than it is in the screenshots

I've been busy shopping for furniture so I haven't had much of an opportunity to work on my map any more. I'm guessing mine is going to be quite simplistic compared to some of the maps so far as I don't have the time atm

ReNo: loving your map lots! I see you finally got round to making your Zelda map

[addsig]



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 Re: Contest Rules
Posted by ReNo on Sun Apr 25th at 10:06pm 2004

Yup it took me a while! After my initial tinkering, I realised flatshading was really giving me a look that was comparable to the wind waker, so I decided to go all out for it. [addsig]



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 Re: Contest Rules
Posted by scary_jeff on Sun Apr 25th at 10:40pm 2004

If you scale a texture up loads, do the lightmaps (or whatever they are called) get scaled as well? If so, you could run RAD on the map, then in theory a given face would only have one light level on it (if it was scaled up loads so the texture didn't repeat at all over the face)?



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 Re: Contest Rules
Posted by ReNo on Sun Apr 25th at 10:44pm 2004

I use 10x scale on all my textures, and then run RAD with the -notexscale option to make sure the lightmaps aren't scaled up with the textures. This means dynamic lighting effects such as the rocket trails and things don't look horrendous by being scaled up so much. I do run with a chop of 256 however, which makes RAD fly by pretty quick [addsig]



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 Re: Contest Rules
Posted by scary_jeff on Sun Apr 25th at 10:54pm 2004

Oh, I didn't realise that would affect dynamic things. What I was aiming for was making RAD use the same brightness for an entire face, without having that face emit light, and without putting a slightly different coloured texture on that face. Is this possible?



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 Re: Contest Rules
Posted by ReNo on Sun Apr 25th at 11:00pm 2004

If you set a texture to be a texture light, then it will be rendered full bright, not be rendered a slightly different colour or anything (in other words, you could set a white texture to emit strong red light, but it would still look bright white). It will also not be effected by any surrounding lights, it will be fullbright and therefore appear much as it does in the editor (though the editor DOES have some degree of shading build in, which won't be present in the map). It will of course emit light, but then thats a good thing for the most part, as it means models passing by will always be lit. If you want to stop this happening, and manually place lights to effect the models (but not the world) then just set the texture lights intensity down to something extremely low. [addsig]



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 Re: Contest Rules
Posted by scary_jeff on Sun Apr 25th at 11:08pm 2004

OK, thanks for the explanation, but I was looking to have the face lit by point lights, or more precisely, a light_enviroment. So say you had a map that contained a red vertical 32-sided cylinder, and the only light source is a light_enviroment - what I want to achieve is to have the faces of the cylinder getting progressively darker as they face more and more away from the 'sun', but have the colour accross a given face totally uniform.



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 Re: Contest Rules
Posted by ReNo on Sun Apr 25th at 11:20pm 2004

I did it manually through the use of differently shaded textures, but I realise that is a load of hassle for complex maps or ones which use more than one light source (in the case of doing manual shading, conceptual light sources).

Perhaps you could do it through the use of an extremely high chop value? This way there would most likely be only one or two patches per face, and this might result in a face being lit entirely evenly but different to the surrounding faces. This is just a guess though, I've not tested it so don't blame me if it doesn't work at all. [addsig]



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 Re: Contest Rules
Posted by scary_jeff on Sun Apr 25th at 11:23pm 2004

No no, that sounds great. Are there any horrible nasty effects of using a very very high chop value?



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 Re: Contest Rules
Posted by ReNo on Sun Apr 25th at 11:27pm 2004

RAD will run obscenely fast?

Seriously though, I'm not sure, I guess it could also make dynamic lighting effects extremely dodgy, just run it and see I suppose. I'd be interested in knowing the results though, so let us know if you do test it. [addsig]



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 Re: Contest Rules
Posted by scary_jeff on Mon Apr 26th at 12:27am 2004

Reno... Genius! Just what I was after. Here is my totally unimpressive screenshot to show what I'm on about.



That's a stretched texture not a flat one, but the effect is the same. One light source and two textures present in that shot. Using that kind of thing is what I had in mind. Also it looks cool firing a rocket past it, because all the panels light up seperately in quick succession. I'm not sure If I want to use this, but it's another idea...

Oh better mention, I used -chop 4096, but you only need to set it to be as high as the largest dimension of a single panel in the map that you want to be lit all one colour.



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 Re: Contest Rules
Posted by Myrk- on Mon Apr 26th at 2:00am 2004

? posted by ReNo
Yeah you certainly have a point about the fades, they are a bit of a cheat I could have used a series of greys to fake one manually, but I felt it would be a waste of polys and probably look s**t. I guess even having the lighthouses on in the day time doesn't make sense, but I felt it added a little bit of interest to the scene.

Yer flatshaded maps do look very boring and plain, always need spicing up

[addsig]



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 Re: Contest Rules
Posted by ReNo on Mon Apr 26th at 2:02am 2004

Cheap shot myrk, you should be ashamed [addsig]




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