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Noah's ark?
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 Re: Noah's ark?
Posted by DesPlesda on Wed Apr 28th at 11:26am 2004

Yes, but you'd need a lot of time.

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Ten to twelve thousand years ago, the cheetah suffered a massive dieoff. Prior to this, there had been many different species, but only a small number of the modern species survived. It is from this remnant population that all cheetahs alive today have descended. As a species, they are genetically identical, with only 2% genetic variation compared with 10% or more in other cats. A skin graft from any cheetah will grow normally on any other cheetah in the world, while a graft from any other cat will wither and die. The potential for a virus to wipe out large numbers is high because of the lack of variation in disease resistance.

Source


Civilisation hasn't been around for 10 to 12 thousand years! Mutations do occur and are responsible for a ton of evolution, but you need a huge amount of time.



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 Re: Noah's ark?
Posted by scary_jeff on Wed Apr 28th at 12:02pm 2004

It's all verywell talking about the theoretical number of combinations, but the reality is that if you breed two closely related animals over and over, the results are not quite so good.



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 Re: Noah's ark?
Posted by Gwil on Wed Apr 28th at 2:05pm 2004

It's quite amusing that these theories are tested, yet people overlook most of Western societies morals (the Christianised side, at least) are developed from the Bible...

It is not the science or the truth that is important in these stories anymore, it is the moral message.. and always was.

[addsig]



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 Re: Noah's ark?
Posted by fishy on Wed Apr 28th at 3:03pm 2004

? posted by Wild Card

I vote the first option. I mean, we didnt come from Adam and Eve... Unless they were really horny and did it every day for their entire lives.. We cant really go from 2 people to 7 billion in 2000+ years.

Personally I dont believe any of it.

if someone is going to believe or not believe, they should at least get the right story to base it on. when cain killed abel, he was punished by being sent away. he went to live in the land of Nod, where he took a wife.

now as there were wives to be taken in the land of Nod, it should somehow dispell any belief that the bible claims all humans are descended from adam and eve. it clearly doesn't.

and it's more like 6000+ years ago.





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 Re: Noah's ark?
Posted by Leperous on Wed Apr 28th at 3:40pm 2004

Western morals are based on the bible?! Please point me out some which don't exist in pretty much all other civilisations on this planet. It's morally ok to own and beat your slaves according to the bible, and kill us atheists and believers of false gods (oh wait, isn't that the same thing some people 'complain' about Islam but conveniently ignore in Exodus?!), but I don't see many people following those up.





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 Re: Noah's ark?
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Wed Apr 28th at 4:29pm 2004

Yeah, I don't know many Christians today advocating the stoning of adulterers or the executions of others because of their beliefs. Now, our friends the Muslims... well...



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 Re: Noah's ark?
Posted by Leperous on Wed Apr 28th at 5:04pm 2004

Well, just shows they don't read their bible.

Exodus 22:20:

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Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed

Deuteronomy 13:6:

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If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people

Deuteronomy 13:12:

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If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods you have not known), then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock

Leviticus 20:10:

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If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death





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 Re: Noah's ark?
Posted by scary_jeff on Wed Apr 28th at 5:21pm 2004

err... "those are just metaphors... don't take it literaly"





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 Re: Noah's ark?
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Apr 28th at 5:25pm 2004

did you hear the one about the engineer who...*thwacks ensue* [addsig]



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 Re: Noah's ark?
Posted by Cash Car Star on Wed Apr 28th at 6:11pm 2004

Gah. People that pull out bizarre passages from Leviticus and Deuteronomy to tell Christians what they're supposed to be doing morality-wise deserve to be put to the sword in the name of the Lord.





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 Re: Noah's ark?
Posted by Leperous on Wed Apr 28th at 6:22pm 2004

Bizarre?! Only because you don't want to listen to their message- are you saying I should ignore certain bits because the word of God isn't that coherent really? Please point out to me where Jesus says to ignore these parts... oh, wait, he doesn't, he says you should read them and take heed.

/thread derailment





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 Re: Noah's ark?
Posted by fishy on Wed Apr 28th at 6:25pm 2004

no, what Lep quoted isn't mataphors at all. that was part of the law given to the jews. to be taken very literaly by them. there are still hardliners who think these laws should be revieved. but that is a concern for the jews. the whole point of jesus was to do away with the need for the laws of the old testament, the 'eye for an eye' concept, and bring in a new era of forgiveness and tolerance. what made things right or wrong in the old testament will still make them right or wrong today, but how we were told to deal with it got changed 2000 years ago. it just seems not to have sunk in yet





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 Re: Noah's ark?
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Wed Apr 28th at 6:29pm 2004

? posted by Leperous

Well, just shows they don't read their bible.

bwahahaha. good point





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 Re: Noah's ark?
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Apr 28th at 6:31pm 2004

... well you see, this engineer, he was.. *more thwacks* [addsig]



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 Re: Noah's ark?
Posted by Biological Component on Wed Apr 28th at 6:43pm 2004

Good point, Fishy.



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 Re: Noah's ark?
Posted by Leperous on Wed Apr 28th at 10:00pm 2004

Well, then it begs the question as to why the rules needed changing? And I don't think Jesus ever once said that the laws of the OT are "old" and not worth paying attention to, quite the opposite in fact.



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 Re: Noah's ark?
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Apr 28th at 10:20pm 2004

and then, that stupid engineer tried to... *more thwacks* [addsig]



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 Re: Noah's ark?
Posted by scary_jeff on Wed Apr 28th at 10:28pm 2004

My post was a joke.



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 Re: Noah's ark?
Posted by Cash Car Star on Thu Apr 29th at 12:00am 2004

I just feel it's incredibly intrusive and mean-spiritedly instigational for someone outside of a group to say to all those inside mostly following a coda (and are better off by ignoring parts of that coda which are antiquated) that they happen to be forgetting certain areas of it. There's a passage in Deuteronomy that explicitly calls for the genocide of one of the other peoples of the Arab region (one which had attacked the Jews following the Exodus when they were at their weakest and which currently exists in no form whatsoever). Would we be better off following it by tracking down their descendants and killing them, as we are "called" to do? No.

Frankly, in this age of detestable religious intolerance, it absolutely baffles me that you're trying to incite MORE.





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 Re: Noah's ark?
Posted by Orpheus on Thu Apr 29th at 12:56am 2004

finally, this engineer, after losing his hat, his glasses, and his... *even more thwacks* _____________flatlines__________ [addsig]




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