Gawd you yanks should give it a rest (no pun intended). It's always the same s**t every year, another forum thread, another IRC hobo, you don't see me running around once a year on 11/11 at 11am talking bout what I was doing that day, maybe because I wasn't born, but still, let it be...
Any 11/9 threads next year I can't see lasting too long 
It happend 2 years ago. Do we still need to be talking about it today? Alot more has happended since then, and alot more will. Why stay stuck talking about the past? Look at the present. Look towards the future.
| ? posted by Gorbachev |
|
funny thing is the night before all that stuff happened I had this weird premonition as I was walking down the stairs to my room. I felt that something really big was going to happen the next morning, I had no clue what, but it's the only time in my life that I had a thought/feeling like that. When I woke up and heard all this speculation on the radio I was thoroughly spooked. |
you know, I never watch TV in the morning, I almost never watch tv in the afternoon and almost never at night, but for some reason I turned on the TV that morning, the first time that year to be exact (normally I get ready for work and leave). Pretty wierd when I think about it.
i hate to point this out, but you all seem to agree with gwil in letting it die, and leaving these people to deal with it on there own...while it seems heartless, maybe some of them would just like to forgive and forget, so by keeping this thread alive, and continueing to post in responce to, or in addition to is mearly contridicting what gwil said, and what you guys agreed to.
dont get me wrong, i am an american, and i do feel for those who lost there lives for no good reason, but that was 2yrs ago, if we had threads posted for everyone who lost there lives to hilter and his nazi scum (playin too much DOD) we would never see the end of it.
[addsig]
http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2001/465/465p15.htm
These camps, now dubbed ?terrorist universities? by Washington, were built in collaboration with the ISI and the CIA. The Afghan contra fighters, including the tens of thousands of mercenaries recruited and paid for by bin Laden, were armed by the CIA. Pakistan, the US and Britain provided military trainers.
Tom Carew, a former British SAS soldier who secretly fought for the mujaheddin told the August 13, 2000, British Observer, ?The Americans were keen to teach the Afghans the techniques of urban terrorism ? car bombing and so on ? so that they could strike at the Russians in major towns ... Many of them are now using their knowledge and expertise to wage war on everything they hate.?
Al Qaeda (the Base), bin Laden's organisation, was established in 1987-88 to run the camps and other business enterprises. It is a tightly-run capitalist holding company ? albeit one that integrates the operations of a mercenary force and related logistical services with ?legitimate? business operations.
Bin Laden has simply continued to do the job he was asked to do in Afghanistan during the 1980s ? fund, feed and train mercenaries. All that has changed is his primary customer. Then it was the ISI and, behind the scenes, the CIA. Today, his services are utilised primarily by the reactionary Taliban regime.
Way to go CIA. So we attacked Afghanistan to get rid its 'terrorist training camps' when WE BUILT THEM and WE TRAINED THEM. Bullshit like this is why I refuse to be partriotic about anything. Our govenment is full of s**t. WE TRAINED OSAMA BIN LADEN for f**k's sake. Go America!
W00p W00p 100 posts go me...
stupid yanks D:~~
[addsig]im trying real hard to keep this thread civil in tone....but its getting tough.....
hmm...im a little surprised at the lack of emotion in this thread, especially from the folks in the USA.....with only a couple exceptions, i get this "me me me" vibe from it..as if its an inconvienience to talk about the worst attack on american soil in modern history......if youve been dealing with terrorism for so long, then yoiu should understand where we are at in the national mindset....
let it go you say....i say.."never"....
so we are stupid in america eh?.....cool
dont call us next time.....and btw, myrk, you can gfy...
....and for my american brethren....i hope its not your door they come thru next time.....
peace....
Dr Brasso....
The WTC is not here TODAY. Our economy is still suffering TODAY. Every single person that died on 9/11 is not here TODAY. 2 years later?? DEATH IS NOT SOMETHING THAT HAS AN EXPIRATION DATE. SOME people may dismiss 9/11 as a media frenzy. SOME people may think it is a poor excuse to display 'patriotism'. SOME people may think that this date doesn't mean as much as it did in 2001. But it does.
I see you people sayin that we dont treat this day the same as the past tragic events in american history. No, i don't treat the anniversary of the attack on pearl harbor the same. I'll admit that. But, my grandfather does. He was in the service at the time. Me? I wasn't in NYC on 9/11. But, i saw it happening on live TV. Regardless of what the media did, regardless of the reasons people put flags on their homes, and regardless of what will happen in the future - I wont forget.
I never thought this thread would turn into such a damn disgrace.
| ? posted by Cassius | ||
|
Once again:
So to all of you who despise pride because you don't share in it; to all of you across the Atlantic who call our laws oppressive while you pay taxes to run the BBC; and to all of you who would call us 'stupid yanks';
Shove it up your ass.
- Dr. Cassius
 |
|
i second that...screw being nice....
dr Brasso....
[addsig]They say history repeats its self.. Does anyone remember the ROMAN EMPIRE?
($)
P.S. CASSIUS.. WAVE THE FLAG MAN.. IF U WAVE IT HARDER THAN ANYONE ELSE YOUR A BETTER AMERICAN.
P.S.S. NOT!
[addsig]um, what I've seen of the BBC coverage of the Iraqi War was FAR less biased and up-close than what we got over here. but hey, what do you expect when your reporters are in bed with erm i mean 'embedded' with the US troops? ffs sake did you see FOX news, they are worse than Al-Jazeera, they didn't even pretend to be unbiased.
america would be a better place if people would swallow their pride once in a while and admit that we do some pretty s**tty things. blind patriotism is for morons. it's the mindset of a fanatic.
excuse me while I excercise my freedom:
Ah, I feel much better now.
Jinx, my thoughts exactly on the fanatacism- although us Europeans share your grief over what happened along with pretty much the rest of the world, the problem today is that we see America as fanatic about it's 'freedom' and other values as the terrorists are about their beliefs. We see post 9-11 America not actually making the world a better place to live in, but installing hatred in others and fear in themselves. We also see America as being run purely on big business and using bully tactics to get it's way in the international community. That's the way it seems to me and a lot of people, and I'm just saying and not bashing Americans themselves.
You know what I say?
Respect it and each other, and that's how we'll get some peace in this world.
| ? posted by Leperous |
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Jinx, my thoughts exactly on the fanatacism- although us Europeans share your grief over what happened along with pretty much the rest of the world, the problem today is that we see America as fanatic about it's 'freedom' and other values as the terrorists are about their beliefs. We see post 9-11 America not actually making the world a better place to live in, but installing hatred in others and fear in themselves. We also see America as being run purely on big business and using bully tactics to get it's way in the international community. That's the way it seems to me and a lot of people, and I'm just saying and not bashing Americans themselves. You know what I say?
Respect it and each other, and that's how we'll get some peace in this world. |
Ya see jinx? There IS a way of expressing your opinion without burning a flag.
And let me tell you this; I'm not a fanatic american who screams, 'freedom freedom freedom', all over the place. But, our culture is freedom. We don't have much original culture, but that is the bulk of it. WE DIE for our freedom. WE DIE to practice our freedom. WE DIE to protect the freedom of EVERYONE throughout the world. But - around here, if anyone were to put a lighter anywhere near a flag, he wouldn't even have time to open his trap about his freedom...
I'de be lying if i said the American government was perfect. I'de be lying if i said that the American government hasn't made bad decisions. But, our soldiers didn't die to gain new governments that will allow our big businesses. Our soldiers didn't die to install hatred in other cultures. Our soldiers died to spread freedom and prosperity. True, this might seem like the thinking of a muslim extremist - spreading our beleifs where ever we can. But, do you know why nearly EVERY country practices the same freedoms as us now? What would you do if you couldn't practice the religion you wanted to? If you couldnt say what you wanted to? If you were killed for being a woman and expecting to be treated equal? Go to Afghanistan and ask the people if they are happier now than when they were 3 years ago. Go to Germany and see their booming economy. Go to France (if you are not there already) and ask them if they would rather their country was run by the nazis. These are only a few examples what american soldiers have died for. As much as I wish i could say i am one of these people who have fought in other countries, I can't. The most i can do is defend their souls from people who disrespect them.
Leper, it's pretty uncommon to find someone who can lay it down like you did. I don't live in a foreign country.. and have never even left the U.S.... so I don't really know how we look from the outside. But, if your relatives left and died for a meaningful purpous.. only to be dismissed like this.......... I totally understand that the way that you and your neighbors see America can't be changed. But please, consider what I have said. Thanks in advance ; )
And jinx... that flag represents a hell of a lot more than our government. It represents me, it represents you, and it represents EVERY SOUL that died to make this country and world how it is. This is your warning: dont post it, or anything like it, again.
I've stayed away from this thread out of respect for the emotions of people who were much more affected by "9/11" than I was. Some of them may have lost family or friends, or maybe just were more shocked and upset by the events because they were that much closer to the carnage than I was.
To the abstract man - I don't know what it is about this disaster that upsets you so personally, simply because I don't know you. But I respect your emotion.
It saddens me that this topic is so divisive and so difficult to talk about. Both Lep. and Jinx have made what I consider to be incisive comments, but they will be ignored by many because they are perceived as an attack on American values. Similarly it is common over here for people to say, "I hate America; I think everything it does is wrong", and blind themselves to the many good aspects of America. Both sides are often so stubbornly adhered to their own prejudices that they refuse to understand any comments that might mollify them.
| ? quote: |
| WE DIE to protect the freedom of EVERYONE throughout the world. But - around here, if anyone were to put a lighter anywhere near a flag, he wouldn't even have time to open his trap about his freedom... |
I ask all of you patriotic Americans to think about the above. Is this what you, as a country, have worked for? Is this truly the freedom you want?
I think the word freedom is bandied about far too casually. I'm not convinced many people know what it means. Rather, it is a banner to stand under; a symbol, much like that flag which is so proudly displayed in one country and so vehemently burned in some others. It might help if we could stop thinking about symbols and start thinking about people.
Here is a thought about freedom that I offer:
When people don't have freedom, they want it more than anything else. But when they eventually get freedom, they don't know what to do with it. Many of us live out our lives in a comfortable recluse from freedom; we are able to abdicate from choice by the structures that society imposes upon us. Learning how to use freedom - how to cope with freedom without running away from it - is perhaps the task of a lifetime.
Theres nothing wrong with being patriotic. Theres nothing wrong with being patriotic in response to 9/11.
Bringing in other issues such as the Iraq war has no relevance to the above issue.
Correct me if I'm wrong but UK has more freedom than US, and we don't say we are the land of freedom!
We definitely have more freedom of expression, do anything wrong in US and you get your ass sued.
Hear about the woman who tripped over a child in a furniture store, sued the store and won. The child was her own son!
[addsig]It was a tragedy, and I do feel terrible for the families of the victims, but no more so on the anniversary than any other day, and no more so for the people involved in the 9/11 attack than any other innocent victims of crime, terrorism and war.
[addsig]
| ? posted by mazemaster |
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Theres nothing wrong with being patriotic. Theres nothing wrong with being patriotic in response to 9/11. Bringing in other issues such as the Iraq war has no relevance to the above issue. |
Oh really? Who is the arbiter over relevance? Who decides?
You?
Your President?
Your media?
