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NEW HL2 SCREENS!!!!
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 Re: NEW HL2 SCREENS!!!!
Posted by Crono on Fri Apr 30th at 12:58am 2004

They still need to (trying-to-be-realistic games) need to work on their physics engine more.

Havok 2 is great ... but it's not even close to realistic. However, they can't be added in yet ... an average gamers computer wouldn't be able to run a game that calculated everything that was needed for realistic-like physics. I mean pressure effects A LOT of thing and so does temperature, but they haven't REALLY been implimented. At least games have proper velocity and trajectory now

But even forces need to be tweaked.

When you edit a game it would be very nice if you could define certain things, such as acceleration due to gravity, and not the 800 crap. (I believe if you look at the HL Physics code the gravity WAS set to 9.81 m/s^2, so I think they were trying to do this). Techincally that and mass is the only thing you'd have to define, everything else could be calculated from it's dimensions and material type.

I mean ... it would be pretty bad ass if you had the ability to engineer actual devices in mapping. (of course it wouldn't mandatory though, that would be silly). You could build a bridge and set the wind current ... and depending on how your bridge was built it would sustain or not ... think of the possibilities with something like that. Also, a lot of the calculations would be done durring a compile.

But ... keeping track of these things would still bog a computer down. None of this takes into account elasisity or proper (human) joints either.

I think graphically they're fine.I mean yeah great they're pretty and all ... but as Vash said, gameplay matters more (however, graphics don't hurt ).

[EDIT]
I'm not saying some of these things aren't being taken into consideration, its just that they aren't being executed properly.
[/EDIT] [addsig]



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 Re: NEW HL2 SCREENS!!!!
Posted by omegaslayer on Fri Apr 30th at 1:02am 2004

? posted by Myrk-

God you guys! You love HL so blindly you don't realise the truth. HL2 is dissapointing, its bog standard graphics. Released in september it would have blown the world away, but please, Stalker...

We have already had this argument before in the "review" the HL2 and D3 betas tread, we already know that HL2 has mediocure graphics, so frikin what? Vash really hit it on the nose:

? posted by Vash

Who cares about graphics. Want super-realistic, real-life graphics? Go outside. Half-life 2 offers much more than a pretty face. It seems to offer a variety of style, and content, rather than making levels full of polygons and labeling it a game. People these days are so distracted by how much prettier games have gotten that they havent noticed the fact that playing them is like stabbing yourself in the balls...What made Half-Life so compelling was its robust single-play story line, its online frag-fest of multiplayer, and its moddable content which kept it alive till this day. The reason I cant wait for Half-Life2 is because its just Half-Life 1, repackaged and suped up a lot for our pleasures. Just thinking of all my ideas from Half-Life 1 that couldnt be modded, but now can be in Half-Life2 is mind blowing.

This is what it all boils down to:
1) HL2 may have mediocure graphics, but can you have the fun of shooting scientists and knocking over computer screens and having them yell at you in any other games? (may be true in some cases)
2) Why are you bashing Half-life in a Half-life community?





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 Re: NEW HL2 SCREENS!!!!
Posted by Cassius on Fri Apr 30th at 1:22am 2004

Most of the time I wouldn't want to say this, but I can honestly come up with no other reason but Myrk likes the attention - whenever possible, he asserts his enlightened views on the subject, which frequently come out as entirely unfounded.

I like HL2 because other games have nice coded graphical effects, but in terms of artistic value HL2 is king.





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 Re: NEW HL2 SCREENS!!!!
Posted by Campaignjunkie on Fri Apr 30th at 1:36am 2004

Agree with Cassius. Artistic integrity + vision > polygons

HL2 graphics are definately not mediocre. I kind of compare it to World of Warcraft in that respect. Sure, it's not a polygon/texture-cramming engine, but it still looks great. Also keeps the game much more accessible - I'll pretty much never be able to play Doom 3 or Stalker on my system anytime soon.

[addsig]



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 Re: NEW HL2 SCREENS!!!!
Posted by omegaslayer on Fri Apr 30th at 1:50am 2004

Ya your right and let it be said again that there is more to a game than polished graphics, I mean look at FF6, it is still one of the greates games (in my opinion) today, but yet the graphics are outdated.

[addsig]



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 Re: NEW HL2 SCREENS!!!!
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Fri Apr 30th at 2:33am 2004

? posted by Campaignjunkie

Graphics matter, especially in FPS's. Why?

There it is. Yep, pure gameplay. Pure action. No silly "graphics" to get in the way.

First off, you can't take the most extreme example and extrapolate way beyond it to make a point. There is a big difference saying I want gameplay over graphics if the choice is between three more cool levels or reflective surfaces instead of three more cool levels and textures. Secondly, dust is ugly, and whenever I play it seems like a big yellow blur anyway, so replacing pink for yellow wouldn't matter to me. I'd still play it. Hell, look at all the killboxes and 'fun maps' out there that many poor souls play. They look like crap, yet contain 'gameplay' that they want to experience. If looks mattered so much they would reject them outright.





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 Re: NEW HL2 SCREENS!!!!
Posted by Campaignjunkie on Fri Apr 30th at 2:50am 2004

? posted by Yak_Fighter

First off, you can't take the most extreme example and extrapolate way beyond it to make a point. There is a big difference saying I want gameplay over graphics if the choice is between three more cool levels or reflective surfaces instead of three more cool levels and textures. Secondly, dust is ugly, and whenever I play it seems like a big yellow blur anyway, so replacing pink for yellow wouldn't matter to me. I'd still play it. Hell, look at all the killboxes and 'fun maps' out there that many poor souls play. They look like crap, yet contain 'gameplay' that they want to experience. If looks mattered so much they would reject them outright.

Lots of people argue that dust looks great (well it did a few years ago anyway), and I certainly think it still stands up fairly admirably to maps today. The point I was trying to make was that if de_dust was that horribly, horribly ugly, it definately wouldn't be popular. All those people that claim that gameplay is the most important part - have fun playing Quake or something. Graphics matter, a lot. Of course that seems to contradict my earlier statement of graphics not mattering for Half-Life 2. In which case... Well ermmm... It depends on what your definition of "good graphics" is. *runs*

Also, I was under the impression that killboxes / whatever don't get as much playtime as everyone makes them out to have. Even idiots (i.e. my friends) become bored of the repetition. I guess I'm too disconnected / isolated from the multiplayer community now?

[addsig]



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 Re: NEW HL2 SCREENS!!!!
Posted by ReNo on Fri Apr 30th at 2:57am 2004

Graphics matter of course, but they aren't the be all and end all - they don't have to be the best out there to garner the game a decent audience. HL2 more than stands its own in today's FPS market - it might not look the best out of its competition, but neither did HL1 - and if it keeps up its forerunners grand reputation, its gameplay and modding community will surpass the others due to be out around the same time. [addsig]



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 Re: NEW HL2 SCREENS!!!!
Posted by Cassius on Fri Apr 30th at 3:20am 2004

Aesthetic quality is a huge factor in how a map is played, especially in terms of lighting.



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 Re: NEW HL2 SCREENS!!!!
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Fri Apr 30th at 3:21am 2004

? posted by Campaignjunkie
? posted by Yak_Fighter

First off, you can't take the most extreme example and extrapolate way beyond it to make a point. There is a big difference saying I want gameplay over graphics if the choice is between three more cool levels or reflective surfaces instead of three more cool levels and textures. Secondly, dust is ugly, and whenever I play it seems like a big yellow blur anyway, so replacing pink for yellow wouldn't matter to me. I'd still play it. Hell, look at all the killboxes and 'fun maps' out there that many poor souls play. They look like crap, yet contain 'gameplay' that they want to experience. If looks mattered so much they would reject them outright.

Lots of people argue that dust looks great (well it did a few years ago anyway), and I certainly think it still stands up fairly admirably to maps today. The point I was trying to make was that if de_dust was that horribly, horribly ugly, it definately wouldn't be popular. All those people that claim that gameplay is the most important part - have fun playing Quake or something. Graphics matter, a lot. Of course that seems to contradict my earlier statement of graphics not mattering for Half-Life 2. In which case... Well ermmm... It depends on what your definition of "good graphics" is. *runs*

Also, I was under the impression that killboxes / whatever don't get as much playtime as everyone makes them out to have. Even idiots (i.e. my friends) become bored of the repetition. I guess I'm too disconnected / isolated from the multiplayer community now?

The comparison should be between games of the same generation of engines. Obviously I wouldn't enjoy playing Doom or Dark Forces nowadays because the lack of mouse look bothers me and the lack of true 3d graphics... but if we are debating the relatively tiny differences between a bunch of engines I'm going to pick the game built with the best gameplay and story over the game built on the flashiest engine.





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 Re: NEW HL2 SCREENS!!!!
Posted by ReNo on Fri Apr 30th at 3:45am 2004

? quote:
Aesthetic quality is a huge factor in how a map is played, especially in terms of lighting.


Yup, and games with graphics only as good as the original Thief managed to pull that off to a greater extent than most games on modern engines. You don't need an engine like Stalker or Far Cry to have developed enough lighting to determine your gameplay style. Splinter Cell isn't the best looking game out there, but its use of light and dark in gameplay is far more developed than anything else I've seen. If HL2 wants light levels to play a huge part in gameplay, its engine is more than developed enough to manage that. [addsig]



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 Re: NEW HL2 SCREENS!!!!
Posted by Campaignjunkie on Fri Apr 30th at 4:05am 2004

? posted by Yak_Fighter

but if we are debating the relatively tiny differences between a bunch of engines I'm going to pick the game built with the best gameplay and story over the game built on the flashiest engine.

Ditto. Well, the flashiest thing that will run on my system.

[addsig]



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 Re: NEW HL2 SCREENS!!!!
Posted by scary_jeff on Fri Apr 30th at 9:17am 2004

? quote:
it would be pretty bad ass if you had the ability to engineer actual devices in mapping.


I believe you can do that in HL2. They had a level where they had build an engine with cylinders and all the other gubbins, the main shaft was being artifically rotated, and all the other parts responded to this movement approptiately.


Honestly, the arguements against 'gameplay over graphics' here are nothing short of pathetic. If you say you prefer gameplay, that doesn't mean you don't care about graphics at all!! If I say I prefer coke to pepsi, that doesn't mean that if only pepsi is available, I won't have anything.



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 Re: NEW HL2 SCREENS!!!!
Posted by Leperous on Fri Apr 30th at 9:41am 2004

Jeff, I would hazard a guess and say those were models (with the physics engine working on it) rather than map geometry... The cars do the same thing, with the axles and doors moving about if they get hit.



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 Re: NEW HL2 SCREENS!!!!
Posted by wil5on on Fri Apr 30th at 10:49am 2004

Who cares? Its still cool!

[addsig]



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 Re: NEW HL2 SCREENS!!!!
Posted by Myrk- on Fri Apr 30th at 3:41pm 2004

? posted by Cassius

Most of the time I wouldn't want to say this, but I can honestly come up with no other reason but Myrk likes the attention - whenever possible, he asserts his enlightened views on the subject, which frequently come out as entirely unfounded.

Thats a loada bulls**t tbh. I merely like to post an alternative view on the subject to make things more interesting. If we all liked the same thing the world would be a boring place, so I question your likes and dislikes which brings in more of a debate.

If you can't handle a debate then don't attack the person asserting the other point of view. I never once said I didn't like HL2 or HL1, I merely say that in todays market it is not near the top in any way (as far as we know)...

[addsig]



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 Re: NEW HL2 SCREENS!!!!
Posted by Juim on Fri Apr 30th at 4:15pm 2004

I think to be automatically contrary is'nt so much of a debate sparker, rather, it tends to have an inflammatory tone. Here especially, as this is basically a HL forum.All that aside though, I think Far Cry has achieved graphically, pretty much what we can expect from HL2. So it boils down to gameplay as stated before. HL brought with it an involving storyline, intermingled with inventive and thought provoking gameplay, and bundled with a wildly entertaining multi-play aspect. I am a bit jaded now, and can't seem to find the thrill of my earlier HL deathmatch days. I hardly play that any more simply because I am tapped out. I have row after row of new games sitting on my CD rack, almost all of which I have finished the single player mode, but have not been thrilled with the multiplayer aspect of any of them, save for the battlefield games which are of course, mainly multiplayer.Even the UT series fails to entertain me. I can only hope that HL2 brings with it he same feeling I got with the original with regaurd to multiplay. I intend to upgrade every cent I have to spare to make this possible. More RAM, new Vid card, CPU, whatever it takes. I may be fooling myself, and pinning too much hope on what Valve is capable of, but what else have I got to do with my spare change?.



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 Re: NEW HL2 SCREENS!!!!
Posted by Kage_Prototype on Fri Apr 30th at 4:20pm 2004

? quote:

Thats a loada bulls**t tbh. I merely like to post an alternative view on the subject to make things more interesting. If we all liked the same thing the world would be a boring place, so I question your likes and dislikes which brings in more of a debate.


What you just said there sounds like trolling to me.....stating the opposite viewpoint so we can argue over it, for no other reason... [addsig]



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 Re: NEW HL2 SCREENS!!!!
Posted by Leperous on Fri Apr 30th at 4:31pm 2004





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 Re: NEW HL2 SCREENS!!!!
Posted by Vash on Fri Apr 30th at 4:54pm 2004

WHERE CAN I GET ONE!!!?!!!111 [addsig]




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