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US/Coalition prisoner abuse in Iraq
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 Re: US/Coalition prisoner abuse in Iraq
Posted by KungFuSquirrel on Sun May 2nd at 5:41pm 2004

? quote:

post government atrocities till you get blisters on your damned fingers i don't care, but even my broad nature can see the topic was pointedly US bashing.. even if its not, it says it is.


It's CURRENT EVENTS. Jesus christ. It's not just something that the kids in the UK think is worth discussing, this is going to have direct negative consequences on our nation. It doesn't matter who else has done what other atrocities, because in the scope of this discussion, we're talking about United States troops committing these acts under the flag of peace and democracy. I think that's an issue well worth discussing. You can't just waltz in saying "Hey, the UK did a bunch of bad stuff too!" - that's nice, I'm sure we can dig up all kinds of dirt from the imperialist era, but that's not relevant to this discussion of a single event! [addsig]



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 Re: US/Coalition prisoner abuse in Iraq
Posted by Orpheus on Sun May 2nd at 5:46pm 2004

look, i care about you 2 as much as is possible to do so in an internet relationship.. but you almost always assume that when i use terms such as c**ky, thats meant derogatorily, when its just a word to me..

i would assume that it must stem from a measure of guilt on your part, cause when you call me childish, or close minded, it just rolls off me like water on a duck.. there is no real way i can take it as wrong, its true enough.

face it, you all are very damned c**ky, you have so little real world experiences to draw upon.. but in all fairness, if we happen to be compatriots in 5 more years, and if you are honest enough to look back on yourselves now, and NOT call yourselves c**ky.. i will respect that decision at face value.

being on the wrong side of a debate, never stopped me before, why should today be different?

as i said, i care about you both, but times like this... stress that feeling to its limits.. the fact that i remain, speaks best in your favor..

/me tired.. i will go away now.. all this mushy stuff.. well you know

[addsig]



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 Re: US/Coalition prisoner abuse in Iraq
Posted by fraggard on Sun May 2nd at 5:48pm 2004

I think the fact that such a thing has happened is so sickening, that , to me, "who did it" is a complete non-issue. It should never have happened. I don't see any reason to come screaming in with all your flags waving in saying "j00 did It TOO!!!".



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 Re: US/Coalition prisoner abuse in Iraq
Posted by Orpheus on Sun May 2nd at 5:57pm 2004

? posted by fraggard
"j00 did It TOO!!!".

another series valid posts wasted

you win, thats what i said, that was my whole point for being an asshole..

[addsig]



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 Re: US/Coalition prisoner abuse in Iraq
Posted by Leperous on Sun May 2nd at 6:20pm 2004

? posted by fraggard
I think the fact that such a thing has happened is so sickening, that , to me, "who did it" is a complete non-issue. It should never have happened. I don't see any reason to come screaming in with all your flags waving in saying "j00 did It TOO!!!".

It would be interesting to see what you'd do in the same situation though, to someone who had planted a car bomb and killed fellow soliders, civilians and children. Or if it was your friend who had been killed and dragged through the streets. Although it's wrong, it can hardly be called sickening when you compare it to everything else that's going on...





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 Re: US/Coalition prisoner abuse in Iraq
Posted by JFry on Sun May 2nd at 6:25pm 2004

I don't really understand your point Orph. This is what happened (allegedly), so it's obviously not the fault of anybody here. Wouldn't it be worse if people didn't discuss it? I'm sorry I'm just having trouble finding any bias in this thread. Its not like anyone said "this is what americans do; all americans must be scumbags."



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 Re: US/Coalition prisoner abuse in Iraq
Posted by Orpheus on Sun May 2nd at 6:35pm 2004

? posted by JFry
I don't really understand your point Orph. This is what happened (allegedly), so it's obviously not the fault of anybody here. Wouldn't it be worse if people didn't discuss it? I'm sorry I'm just having trouble finding any bias in this thread. Its not like anyone said "this is what americans do; all americans must be scumbags."

my being able to make a point in an way comprehensible has been a long time blight on my interaction around here.

my point was not to correct, place blame, or make excuses for the american/coalition troops.

it was to say simply, that i would have read this whole thread, had the topic simply stated "iraqi's being abused?" or "Iraqi's do the really deserve abuse?"

the point? this site has more school members than any i have ever visited, but sometimes you still need to realize that there are multiple tactful ways to comment..

you guys never hesitate to point out my blunders such as "PRICK,PISSANT, OR c**kY" but if i point out the same sort of insensitivity in you.. i am being prejudiced.

thats a double standard, i have a hard time with..

[addsig]



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 Re: US/Coalition prisoner abuse in Iraq
Posted by scary_jeff on Sun May 2nd at 9:00pm 2004

Basically, the only issue Orph has is the use of 'US' in the thread title...

Fair enough, but appreciate that pretty much every newspaper/news website/news channel will have specifically talked about US troops doing this. It may or may not be unfair that this particular story has got so much attention, but you must accept that it has had a lot of it, and in posting a thread about this specific thing with US troops, Lep has nothing worse than any of the rest of the worlds media (not that this makes it right). In my opinion he did a lot better, giving a blanced opinion on this one particular incident. The aim was to talk about the implications of this single event, not bad events in general, and so the thread title seems just fine to me.

I say again, if it had been the exact same incident and thread, but with 'US' replaced with 'australian', I really don't think you would have objected to it Orph.



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 Re: US/Coalition prisoner abuse in Iraq
Posted by Orpheus on Sun May 2nd at 9:42pm 2004

? posted by scary_jeff
I say again, if it had been the exact same incident and thread, but with 'US' replaced with 'australian', I really don't think you would have objected to it Orph.

funny, in all this time, you would still think that.. sad really.

think about how i truly act, you and i fought like girls forever once upon a time, but in the heat of it all, if someone treated you badly in my name, i would defend you on principal.. its not in my nature to kick someone when they are down.

as with this thread, i honestly feel everyone who read it, would have read it just the same, without the country added.. i also contend that there is a good chance i would have commented on the australia as well, but pose this theory as well... NO ONE would have told me to shut up if i had made a comment about australia.. my comment would have been heeded, or ignored outright...

since snarkpit does from time to time, have arguments/debates/flames over US bashing, it brought my comment to center stage, instead of remaining on the edge of notice.

i honestly feel, it went south because i said something, but i do not believe i caused it to occur, the sentiment was firmly in place before this topic got posted.

i hope that made sense jeff, cause thats my entire take on how this thread unfolded.. at least from my 1st reply to now.

i still believe, the US portion could have been omitted, and the audience would have remained the same..

as i said, i am not trying to debate,change or argue the issue, just its deliver system..

[addsig]



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 Re: US/Coalition prisoner abuse in Iraq
Posted by fraggard on Mon May 3rd at 2:47am 2004

? posted by Leperous

It would be interesting to see what you'd do in the same situation though, to someone who had planted a car bomb and killed fellow soliders, civilians and children. Or if it was your friend who had been killed and dragged through the streets. Although it's wrong, it can hardly be called sickening when you compare it to everything else that's going on...

Depends on what you mean by "you" actually. As a country, we would try and resolve the issue like we've been doing all these years. Terrorism might be new over there but we've lived with it for quite some time now. I suppose we've realised that use of armed force only makes it worse for the innocents .

As an individual, I have no clue what I would do (hopefully, I'll never find out) But I'm pretty sure it won't be anything like this.





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 Re: US/Coalition prisoner abuse in Iraq
Posted by Cassius on Mon May 3rd at 4:43am 2004

I find myself in the position where I'm no longer sure about the war - I believe there is some merit in the war, but I know that if I was an Iraqi I could never tolerate what's going on. While the removal of Saddam Hussein was undoubtedly a good thing in principle, and will most likely better the nation in the end, almost everything else in between has been riddled with mistakes. [addsig]




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