I won't go into detail, but I came upon this video by accident... I would not recommend any of you watch it. It left me speechless and I still dont really know what to say, I was hoping it was a hoax.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/11/iraq.main/
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| ? posted by omegaslayer4777 |
| Its been all over the news on TV (Leave it on during the night), personaly it makes me sick (them beheading a POW), and even more sick that America didn't trade their 3 iraqi prisoners for this guy a few weeks back. I know its not our policy to trade POWs but this was a senceless death that we could have prevented. It is in my opinion that the reason they did this was because of the iraqi mistreatment. I really wish Bush would pull out of there, we've lost too many people for stopping a man who we thought had WMD (weapons of mass destruction). |
It's too late now. Pulling out would only send Iraq into chaos, especially if its over some as small and insignificant as one American's death. Honestly, while it's tragic, what would you expect to happen in the current climate in Iraq? Nobody would get hurt and everybody would be dancing among the flowers? And you can't give in to terrorist demands, as that will only encourage more terrorist action.
The Al-Qaeda people flew a couple of planes into the Trade Center and the Pentagon, and killed 3,000. This beheading incident is just Al-Qaeda being who they are. Leaving them alone is like saying, "yeah, go ahead, keep up the good work."
Pull out? Do you want the terrorists to keep going? Didn't think so.
[addsig]There's something not right about that too. The photos were clearly not taken by "accident"; Linda England said she had orders from her superiors to pose like that. There's also something wrong with that video... It's a too obvious reaction to this provocation who's already suspect; so it's suspect too in my opinion; it looks like some kind of monstruous propaganda, but I have no idea to what it aims for... only the sad actors are innocent people who lose their lives
This is what war is like. To say this is unheard of and blasphemous is ignorant. (Not to say any of you have, just stating in general.) But I've found that in watching many interviews and other movies of US/Coalition soldiers they haven't quite grasped the concept of a real war. While one side are battle hardened people ready to die on a whim for their country/cause the other side is merely an American citizen who really is only there for the financial and education opportunities that are given to soldiers, they've sort of forgotten that the purposes of war are to kill and be killed. It's too much of a "video game" mentality.
I realise that some people see past this, but watching so much of Coalition soldiers wondering why they're being shot still even though they "rescued" Iraq already boggles my mind to no avail. I mean seriously, look behind you...does the country look like it's in a better state? Wake up and smell the debris.
[addsig]| ? posted by Yak_Fighter | ||
It's too late now. Pulling out would only send Iraq into chaos, especially if its over some as small and insignificant as one American's death. Honestly, while it's tragic, what would you expect to happen in the current climate in Iraq? Nobody would get hurt and everybody would be dancing among the flowers? And you can't give in to terrorist demands, as that will only encourage more terrorist action. |
What Yak said - pulling out would be bad for all parties concerned. The country could have been in a better state if the war had been planned properly (borders/ammo dumps secured etc), but that's in the past now. The way to look at it is how can they remedy the damage they have done and are doing by being there.
Personally I support the theoretical plan of a quick transition to a UN backed Islam/Muslim states "occupation" force - but that's as likely to happen as world peace.
On a side note, if anyone has been following the war with some level of interest, do they know why Nick Berg was arrested once by Iraqi police, then by the FBI? Then he was released, "went on the run" (?) and was captured by these people.*
TBH I don't know whats worse - the decapitation or Lyndie England openly laughing and showing an utter lack of remorse on international television ^_^
Kain; propaganda is usually staged/overdramatised/falsified information/images designed to promote and/or decieve people - I don't think American "propaganda" (if it exists) would have US troops beating and degrading PoW's 
Also, Nick Berg lived outside of the "rules" of war, he was a civilian contractor, not a soldier. Terrorists haven't played by the rules for many years, without wanting to sound like a bitter non-US person, we've seen this horror a hundred times before in our other respective nations of the world 
* - anyone? not picking holes, i was just left baffled/bemused by the inclusion of these details in the reports on Mr Berg by several media sources..
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Well let's hope they've how to occupy a country for next time they try to get rid of a ruthless dictator to save the people. /sarcasm
And yes, the video is horrible. I think 'hacked off his head' is more appropriate than CNNs description, and to be honest if the people that did this were the ones being humiliated/tortured in Iraqi photos I couldn't care less...
Heh, I don't have a problem with what theyve done - more the fact theyve rushed into the situation without pre-planning for it - more Iraqi, UK, US, Italian, Spanish lives, and more of the coalitions image could have been saved if they hadn't say, left arms dumps unattended or unguarded for 3 months (!)
Groups such as Ansar Al Islam et al could have been stopped, or at least thwarted/slowed in their campaign of terror - who knows, maybe Nick Berg wouldnt have died?
but yes, there is no excuse for this behaviour, agreed.
[addsig]ignoring the berg incident for the moment.. i am beginning to suspect subterfuge in this whole prison abuse ordeal..
i cannot put my finger on it yet but consider...
police in the US, know they have cameras on their cars.. seldom do they abuse people any more, yes it still happens, but they get burned for it..
who would photograph cruelty like this and be sane? i am beginning to feel, its the people who did not support the war, and are hell bent to discredit the US and its supporting countries.. you gotta admit, if thats not the plan, its working anyways.
many of the photo's i have seen, look staged.. a big hoax.
let us hope, that if this is the case, that the people involved are charged with traitorous actions against the nation, and summarily imprisoned.. considering that being a traitor used to be a death penalty, prison would be letting them off light.
i hope i am wrong, but.. its very rare
Well, the UK 'version' has been practically debunked with the photos basically proven to be faked. Orph, I would probably agree with your 'conspiracy' theory about many of these photos/films being staged for anti-war reasons, although I don't doubt for a minute that there have been human rights violations in prisons in Iraq anyway... Anyway, I'd still like to know just why these people were arrested and put in prison there in the first place, I suppose they're all innocent of trying to blow up hotels with bombs/rocket launchers and the like. :/
The photos just smack of stupidity on the part of the soldiers involved to me, but used effectively by the anti-war camp to promote their messages.
Some certainly do look a lot more dubious than others (the UK ones are fake as you can get), particuarly the ones we have seen after the Lyndie England ones - dodgy cropping, lack of background detail etc..
I think a few photos were taken by less intelligent members of the army, found or revealed by people wishing to discredit the war justification - and then after that some people have jumped on the bandwagon and staged a lot of the newer photos.
If that's true then it certainly is sick, shocking and indeed traitorous to their country/countries if these people would jeopardise the lives of soldiers out there in combat, just for their own motives or a quick buck
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of course there is the very real possibility that something truly evil took place, and this is an attempt to cover it over..
it wouldn't be the first time someone attempted to discredit real events with staged ones..
i am hopeful, but usually the truly evil people get away with it.
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And all this crap FOR WHAT?! Because some idiot pen-pusher in Washington
heard tales of NBC weapons in Iraq?And what about those poor iraqian POWs who were
tortured for pure enjoyment by american soilders?!The american army is no better than their iraqie enemies. Shame!!!
Man, when we first heard about this it were a few examples of a few soldiers. And the politicians were saying this isnt an example of the US military. But now im a tad dubious. I mean 2000 photos of abuse. Considering most wouldnt be captured on candid camera this kinda scares me.
-BB
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| ? posted by esechre |
|
Man, when we first heard about this it were a few examples of a few soldiers. And the politicians were saying this isnt an example of the US military. But now im a tad dubious. I mean 2000 photos of abuse. Considering most wouldnt be captured on candid camera this kinda scares me. -BB |
think about what you just typed.. 2000 pics=dubious
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