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Is DM dead?
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 Re: Is DM dead?
Posted by ReNo on Sun May 23rd at 9:47pm 2004

Gearbox would be highly unlikely to, they have their own projects now and I believe their relations with Valve aren't quite what they used to be. I very much doubt we would see a multiplayer mode made by a different company, more likely by a mod team.

But to be honest I'm sure Valve will have DM in it. [addsig]



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 Re: Is DM dead?
Posted by Orpheus on Sun May 23rd at 10:00pm 2004

/me is sleepy, so if i err again.. screw it.

the *taboo* has DM capabilities, why would they include it if it were not going to be an option?

[addsig]



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 Re: Is DM dead?
Posted by Leperous on Sun May 23rd at 10:01pm 2004

What happened between Gearbox and Valve? I knew GB weren't too happy about patches, but apart from that...



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 Re: Is DM dead?
Posted by Juim on Sun May 23rd at 10:13pm 2004

I think they were removed from the CSCZ project rather unceremoniously.Could be the tension referred to.



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 Re: Is DM dead?
Posted by mazemaster on Sun May 23rd at 10:45pm 2004

Hey guys, remember the origional pitcrew map? Well how cool would it be if we all worked to spiffy it up to HL2 standards, with models and custom textures and high detail, and then released it _the day_ HL2 gets released on the HL2 engine.

We could name it Snarkpit2, and it would get some righteous playtime. Remember, when new games/mods come out, if you can get a good map played enough at the beginning it will become a de-facto "official" map - note gasworks, etc.



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 Re: Is DM dead?
Posted by scary_jeff on Sun May 23rd at 11:36pm 2004

IMO Gearbox got fed up with valve just like pretty much every other mod team appart from CS and DoD. They kept releasing patches that broke old mod code for no good reason, and wouldn't help people fix their stuff unless they were DoD or CS.



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 Re: Is DM dead?
Posted by Bruce on Sun May 23rd at 11:49pm 2004

Look all this talk about if DM is going to be included or not, is simply un needed. What if there won't be HLDM included? So what? Once the SDK is released, how hard can it be to make DM out of that?

When you compile the SDK we've got right now, you get HLDM. Why would it be so much different with HL2?



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 Re: Is DM dead?
Posted by Orpheus on Sun May 23rd at 11:53pm 2004

? posted by Bruce
When you compile the SDK we've got right now, you get HLDM. Why would it be so much different with HL2?

seems to me, if the game does not support it, you will have no code to locate members online who want to frag.. thats a major concern IMO.

sure you can create a DM map, but you couldn't frag it.

[addsig]



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 Re: Is DM dead?
Posted by Crono on Sun May 23rd at 11:57pm 2004

Orph, it'll have mutliplayer ... so you will most definatly be able to find people and make games and such.

I'm relativly sure the multiplayer will have DM amongst other things. (DM is one of the easiest modes to make for multiplay ... not that it's easy, it's just easier then other modes since there is less data to keep track of).

However, another thought might be that, they're transfering HL1 to the HL2 engine, which means that IS a deathmatch mode.

I don't know what they're planning, but I don't think they'll let people down with the final product. [addsig]



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 Re: Is DM dead?
Posted by Orpheus on Mon May 24th at 12:04am 2004

? posted by Crono
Orph, it'll have mutliplayer ... so you will most definatly be able to find people and make games and such.

*looks around to see if ball is still bouncing*

crono, follow the topic, i agree, i was answering the question the quote pertained to...rhetorically since i have the *taboo*

anyways.. i think since HLDM kept the game going 5 years and NOT the single player shipped game, its pretty much a given how it will be sent out

[addsig]



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 Re: Is DM dead?
Posted by Bruce on Mon May 24th at 12:07am 2004

? posted by Orpheus
? posted by Bruce
When you compile the SDK we've got right now, you get HLDM. Why would it be so much different with HL2?

seems to me, if the game does not support it, you will have no code to locate members online who want to frag.. thats a major concern IMO.

sure you can create a DM map, but you couldn't frag it.

What are you talking about? "No code to locate members online"? That makes no sense at all. Do you mean search for them? See how many are online?

If you compile the SDK you've got right now, it'll compile all the source code it's got and build it's dll's. That source code consists out of a client and a server side, both contain all kinds of different classes ranging from monsters and "physics" to viewport drawing functions.

The liblist defines the name of the mod etc. The liblist also makes people able to locate people running servers, once a server for a certain mod is up, you can search for it by defining a value for the mod name in your searcher. Be it HLSW or the WON/Steam tool.

[edit]
Like crono said, there's already going to be a multiplayer side coded in. So all the classes will be available.





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 Re: Is DM dead?
Posted by Orpheus on Mon May 24th at 12:15am 2004

? posted by Bruce

What are you talking about? "No code to locate members online"? That makes no sense at all. Do you mean search for them? See how many are online?

/me reminds bruce, i am ignorant of certain things so be patient with me.

1st off, when you want to frag online, you load HL, then click on the multi-player option..

if valve removes the link, you might find it difficult to play your map.

still as i said, i agree it will be available, so its moot, but i do see that it could be easy for them to disable the HLDM option in the startup menu.

[addsig]



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 Re: Is DM dead?
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Mon May 24th at 12:53am 2004

? posted by mazemaster
Hey guys, remember the origional pitcrew map? Well how cool would it be if we all worked to spiffy it up to HL2 standards, with models and custom textures and high detail, and then released it _the day_ HL2 gets released on the HL2 engine.

We could name it Snarkpit2, and it would get some righteous playtime. Remember, when new games/mods come out, if you can get a good map played enough at the beginning it will become a de-facto "official" map - note gasworks, etc.

The option is certainly there. I'd be up for it.

As for Gearbox, perhaps they got fed up with Valve, but I'd see it the other way around as Valve got fed up with Gearbox's crap. I think it's rather obvious that they are rather incompetent given all the high profile stuff they've dropped the ball on.

And DM'll be there, one way or another. I'd fully support a DM mod if it came to that.





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 Re: Is DM dead?
Posted by Thylacine on Mon May 24th at 11:33am 2004

I must say, TF1.5 on Source would be pretty awesome, especially if it was of the same quality that CS Source looked in that video.

**edit**6 snark marks? i had 20 the otherday, whats going on there?





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 Re: Is DM dead?
Posted by ReNo on Mon May 24th at 1:51pm 2004

They had souped up Aztec in that shot, with the pyramid and all that. I doubt they would do the same for TFC or HLDM ports. [addsig]



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 Re: Is DM dead?
Posted by KungFuSquirrel on Mon May 24th at 2:14pm 2004

? quote:
As for Gearbox, perhaps they got fed up with Valve, but I'd see it the other way around as Valve got fed up with Gearbox's crap. I think it's rather obvious that they are rather incompetent given all the high profile stuff they've dropped the ball on.


Like...?

Opposing Force was fantastic. Blue Shift was intended as an extra console episode, but instead was tossed back to the PC. For what it was supposed to be, it was stellar, but it probably shouldn't have been marketed full-price as a standalone - that's a publisher issue, not Gearbox. Nightfire was absolutely ugly - EA couldn't have cared less for the PC version and that is reflected in what little Gearbox was able to do with it. Condition Zero was stripped away by Valve, yes, but in the same decisionmaking process that later stripped Ritual of the same rights to hand it off to some no-name "Turtle Rock" to add some bots and destroy everything else worked on in the course of that game. I'd say Valve gets more blame for that one than anyone else. The recent CE release of Halo shows a high level of unwillingness by Bungie and Microsoft to aid in any way with Halo, but aside of the performance issues (which, as demonstrated with the CE edition, Microsoft/Bungie wouldn't even allow included in a regular patch, which is hardly Gearbox's fault), I have no complaints of their port, this after playing -both- versions. (I agree the Xbox version is better, but the PC version being verbally raped as it has been is annoyingly reminiscent of the tolkein nuts freaking out about Peter Jackson's trilogy or George Lucas gutting the original Star Wars trilogy, though I do agree with many points of the latter. )

Brothers in Arms is the first time we'll get to see Gearbox go wild with no leash attached. The closest we've seen to them working like this? Opposing Force, arguably their best work to date. So far, they seem to be doing well. I'll pass final judgment the day I pick that game off the shelf. [addsig]



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 Re: Is DM dead?
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Mon May 24th at 6:46pm 2004

I wouldn't put the blame for the Halo port on Microsoft/Bungie, as I read somewhere that Gearbox decided to recode the graphics using DirectX 9 when it was originally done in 8, which wasted time and resources and ran like s**t anyways. I don't rip on the port because they changed aspects of the game or because I'm some ardent defender of Halo, I rip it because it ran and looked like s**t and was unplayable over the internet with a T1 connection that gave pings in the teens for CS and NS. I liked the extra additions they threw in for multiplayer such as the Banshees and the fuel rod gun, but it didn't make up for the rest.

I played Nightfire on the Gamecube, not the PC, so I don't know anything about that, but it blew hard on the Gamecube. I doubt that was entirely EA's fault. Obviously both the developer and the publisher are responsible for the quality of the game, and if a crappy one is released than they both share the guilt.





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 Re: Is DM dead?
Posted by KungFuSquirrel on Mon May 24th at 7:05pm 2004

Well, also remember Gearbox only made the PC version of Nightfire, not the console versions. Just looked up on developer for the console versions and it was "Eurocom" or something.

It's definitely Gearbox's choice (or fault) that they used the DX9 stuff, and I won't blame Microsoft or Bungie for that, either, but when Gearbox -did- take the time to fix it, it'd have been nice for them to allow the full product to be patched up (SP included).

Gearbox did do very well with the Tony Hawk 3 port, for whatever that's worth.

Anyway. Topic.

I find DM to be something that I think will live for a while, though not without evolving (just as it has since it came to being). There's a certain thrill of just all-out mayhem, and it'll be a long time before games abandon that, if they ever do. If anything, the success of UT2K3/4 should be an argument for DM still being quite alive, even if our familiar HLDM is struggling With the possible exception of Assault, the modes of UT (even Onslaught) are either straight-up DM or team DM, and I'd say they're done quite well. Doom3 promises nothing but DM for MP, though the player limits may hinder things, but it should be a welcome MP style regardless.

They've got enough success to their credit that I think Brothers in Arms will do well, though I won't argue that things haven't gone the smoothest for them. [addsig]



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 Re: Is DM dead?
Posted by scary_jeff on Mon May 24th at 8:27pm 2004

I think there is a valuable lesson to be learnt here. EA sucks



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 Re: Is DM dead?
Posted by Hornpipe2 on Tue May 25th at 1:28am 2004

? quote:
I think there is a valuable lesson to be learnt here. EA sucks

Battlefield? SimCity 4? C&C Generals? [addsig]




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