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BUSH WINS NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
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 Re: BUSH WINS NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Posted by Wild Card on Wed Nov 3rd at 11:07pm 2004

? quoting Leperous

And Orph- I ask you again why you seem to think it's ok to keep a gun for "self defence" (i.e. shooting and probably killing someone) but so absolutely wrong to kill an unborn child?!

If a woman get's raped and becomes pregnant. Does she have to keep the child? No. I believe she is allowed to an abortion. Killing in self defence, I believe in. So long as you can proove it to be self defence to the level that 1 of you was going to die for sure, and you, as the victim, wanted to survive.

Bush has killed many Iraquis, and many American soldiers. And he's re-elected too. How is Bush any better than a woman seeking an abortion?

[addsig]



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 Re: BUSH WINS NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Posted by Spartan on Wed Nov 3rd at 11:08pm 2004

I don't like homosexuals either but if I could vote I'd vote on letting them get marriages. The reason why is because voting no would be voting for something that takes another persons freedom away.





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 Re: BUSH WINS NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Nov 3rd at 11:08pm 2004

jeezus f**king christ lep.. i didn't like either.. i have said time and again that they only allowed kerry to be a candidate to ensure a bush re-election.. i would rather go a 4 year term with no one than the two we have.. but i don't see that happening either..

i detest kerry, but i do not like bush any more.. but i was not asked about bush (prolly because i constantly bitch about fuel prices already) i was asked about kerry specifically..

i realize you are busy, and cannot keep up with every threads content, but you are mis-judging me as if i did something wrong..

and to answer your really insensitive question, a fetus doesn't break into houses and commit crimes.. if someone is in your home.. kill them, or not i don't care.. but you cannot put them into the same equation as if they were equal circumstances..

[addsig]



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 Re: BUSH WINS NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Posted by Wild Card on Wed Nov 3rd at 11:10pm 2004

? quoting Spartan 34

I don't like homosexuals either but if I could vote I'd vote on letting them get marriages. The reason why is because voting no would be voting for something that takes another persons freedom away.

Very well said. I am not against gay's myself. It's their rights. After all, most men like lesbians. So why is it men should so hate gays? Just because lesbians is better seen in our world (thanks to porn sites and the like) does that mean 2 gay men is something bad?

[addsig]



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 Re: BUSH WINS NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Posted by Crono on Wed Nov 3rd at 11:11pm 2004

? quoting Spartan 34
I don't like homosexuals either but if I could vote I'd vote on letting them get marriages. The reason why is because voting no would be voting for something that takes another persons freedom away.


You do realize that voting "No" would make it so there is no amendment banning it and the actual law of making it legal would be up to individual counties in individual states? [addsig]



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 Re: BUSH WINS NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Posted by Leperous on Wed Nov 3rd at 11:12pm 2004

No, I know the circumstances aren't the same, but we're still talking about killing them for whatever reason. Is it ever acceptable to kill someone because they're trying to steal something, or rob someone? Hell, why not get rid of the police and just give everyone guns, I'm sure that would fix things!

So, deviating a bit, why didn't you vote Nader then?





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 Re: BUSH WINS NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Posted by Wild Card on Wed Nov 3rd at 11:14pm 2004

Who the f**k is Nader? [addsig]



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 Re: BUSH WINS NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Posted by Crono on Wed Nov 3rd at 11:17pm 2004

The independent party candidate. [addsig]



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 Re: BUSH WINS NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Nov 3rd at 11:18pm 2004

? quoting Leperous

No, I know the circumstances aren't the same, but we're still talking about killing them for whatever reason. Is it ever acceptable to kill someone because they're trying to steal something, or rob someone? Hell, why not get rid of the police and just give everyone guns, I'm sure that would fix things!

So, deviating a bit, why didn't you vote Nader then?

being who i am, i do not see the taking of an adults life as necessarily a bad thing, i am not supportive of it indiscriminately of course (another bush thing, he killed a bunch in texas on death row who might not have been guilty )

anyways being who i am, i couldn't have joined the military had i been completely against killing, well yeah i could have been a conscientious objector i suppose but i am not that.. i do not think the crime necessarily dictates whether you kill them or not, simply because you are not sure that the burglar will be satisfied with only your TV set

and i was so disgusted with the polls, i abstained from voting for anyone

[addsig]



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 Re: BUSH WINS NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Posted by Wild Card on Wed Nov 3rd at 11:20pm 2004

If you join the military, I can only hope your not going to be one to second guess yourself before pulling the trigger on an enemy. Because if you second guess yourself, the enemy wont. And you'll be the one going down. [addsig]



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 Re: BUSH WINS NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Posted by Crono on Wed Nov 3rd at 11:21pm 2004

? quoting Wild Card
If you join the military, I can only hope your not going to be one to second guess yourself before pulling the trigger on an enemy. Because if you second guess yourself, the enemy wont. And you'll be the one going down.


I think if you have any issues like that, then you wouldn't even think of joining the army, military, whatever. [addsig]



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 Re: BUSH WINS NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Nov 3rd at 11:25pm 2004

? quoting Wild Card
If you join the military, I can only hope your not going to be one to second guess yourself before pulling the trigger on an enemy. Because if you second guess yourself, the enemy wont. And you'll be the one going down.

i joined up in aug of 1980, i am almost to old now, but if someone came over here, well i suppose you are never to old to fight.

seriously though, one never knows till they take a life whether they are truly capable of doing it.. all you can do is people who's attitude dictates that they are capable, and hope, when it comes to military fighting..

i have saved perhaps 1/2 a dozen people, people who would have died had i not been present, but i have never killed yet.. when i saved those people it was instinctive reactions, i would hope my instincts would also save myself.. *shrugs* but i dunno..

[addsig]



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 Re: BUSH WINS NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Posted by OtZman on Wed Nov 3rd at 11:27pm 2004

? quote: Yak_Fighter
The lack of guns will not make burglary any less problematic. I'm certain that people still get their houses broken into in Great Britain.

And if he has a gun then well I'd better shoot first and ask questions later. Given that I'm in my home turf so to speak and the lights would be off I'd have the upper hand. I'd rather take that risk than for each of us to not have a gun and he beats me to death with a hammer.



Just a question:

If someone breaks into your house armed with a gun and you see this, are you then allowed to shot this person?

I'm just asking cause I'm curious, because here in Sweden, if someone breaks into your house and then trips on something lying on the floor, YOU'RE the one responsible to pay for HIM! And, imo, that totaly insane. Just want to know if it's the same over there in the USA.
[addsig]



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 Re: BUSH WINS NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Posted by Wild Card on Wed Nov 3rd at 11:28pm 2004

Well yer still alive t'day Jonny boy [addsig]



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 Re: BUSH WINS NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Posted by Spartan on Wed Nov 3rd at 11:32pm 2004

? quoting Crono
? quoting Spartan 34
I don't like homosexuals either but if I could vote I'd vote on letting them get marriages. The reason why is because voting no would be voting for something that takes another persons freedom away.


You do realize that voting "No" would make it so there is no amendment banning it and the actual law of making it legal would be up to individual counties in individual states?

Well I'm not old enough to vote yet and I haven't gotten the chance to read the ammendment yet but you know what I meant.

P.S. I agree with Orph. Everyone needs about 20 shotguns in their home. I know I do.





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 Re: BUSH WINS NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Nov 3rd at 11:33pm 2004

? quoting OtZman
Just a question:

If someone breaks into your house armed with a gun and you see this, are you then allowed to shot this person?

I'm just asking cause I'm curious, because here in Sweden, if someone breaks into your house and then trips on something lying on the floor, YOU'RE the one responsible to pay for HIM! And, imo, that totaly insane. Just want to know if it's the same over there in the USA.

i have been told, by my police friends, that you shoot to kill, do not shoot to wound.

if they are dead, its your word, if they are alive its you against the crook..

and yes, if the crook is hurt in your house while in the act of committing a robbery, he can sue you

[addsig]



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 Re: BUSH WINS NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Posted by Crono on Wed Nov 3rd at 11:34pm 2004

Otz:

I think it depends, we have crooked ass lawyers that can probably sew the victims because their client fell on a knife in the kitchen while robbing them ... which is rediculous.

But, overall, in the law, if you can prove it was self-defence then yeah ... you can shoot them. The only thing is: when people talking about shooting people, they automatically think killing. Which isn't really true. You can easily stop someone from robbing your house by shooting them and not killing them. But ... look up. [addsig]



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 Re: BUSH WINS NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Posted by OtZman on Wed Nov 3rd at 11:41pm 2004

It seems to kinda the same then. I guess that if some dumba** decides to break into my house, and then hurts himself in MY house, the best thing is to kill the s**t and hide the body away someplace far away.

[addsig]



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 Re: BUSH WINS NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Posted by scary_jeff on Thu Nov 4th at 12:07am 2004

I missed the boat a bit here, but

? quote:
There are several guns that are banned here (AKs for example) and guess what, they're used ever so often in crimes because they can pierce Kevlar.

Most people who use guns to commit crimes DIDN'T GET THEM LEGALLY. So, how the hell would a complete ban on firearms help that?


Crono, that's all well and good, but explain how it just doesn't work out like that at all in countries where privately owned guns are basically illegal? If banning guns doesn't make a difference, why are gun crime rates in the uk or germany not just the same as yours (relative to population)?

If you ban automatic weapons all together, this affects people who owned those guns illegal anyway, because after such a rule is introduced, nobody has an excuse for owning one- the police can confiscate any they find ever. As it is, there is a legal route, out of which illegally owned guns can fall... Then any such guns would need to be smuggled in, as opposed to now where these guns can be legally in the country, and so don't have to be smuggled.

It's a lot harder to smuggle something from another country [overseas] than it is to move something to a place it shouldnt be that had previously entered the country legally.

Lastly, let's say you are right, and banning automatic weapons wouldn't have any effect - what would be lost by implementing the ban anyway? Surely you don't think people should have this type of weapon for self defense purposes?



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 Re: BUSH WINS NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Posted by Spartan on Thu Nov 4th at 12:09am 2004

? quoting OtZman
It seems to kinda the same then. I guess that if some dumba** decides to break into my house, and then hurts himself in MY house, the best thing is to kill the s**t and hide the body away someplace far away.

If someone robbed my house I'd blow their freakin head off... literally. Oh and instead of hiding the body I shove it on a pole and stick it in my front yard with a sign that says "this is the last guy who tried to rob me".






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