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Computer Woes
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 Re: Computer Woes
Posted by Vash on Fri Dec 10th at 7:24am 2004

So I finally got my computer parts two days ago, and started constructing. After I fixed an error in construction (something with the motherboard and the back-panel shorting it out) I finally got it to boot / run all the fans, LEDs, and other things. Now, it freezes at the main screen. I cannot take an image because I do not have a digital camera, but I can describe it. The background says "Platinum" and at the bottom, it asks me to press TAB for POST or DEL for BIOS Setup. Seeing how it freezes here, my keyboard doesn't work. I have tried checking a few things, unhooking HDD / DVD-Drive, I have tried resetting the the BIOS jumpers - but so far, no go.

Any ideas?

(Also, huge thanks to morpheus77 for helping me the entire day. He helped me fix my motherboards shorting problem and has been trying to help fix the BIOS freezing)
[addsig]



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 Re: Computer Woes
Posted by xconspirisist on Fri Dec 10th at 10:37am 2004

Just to clarify, I assume the comptuer is actually post'ing, and it is essentailly windows that is freezing?




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 Re: Computer Woes
Posted by Leperous on Fri Dec 10th at 11:33am 2004

No, he's obviously using a different computer Glad you got it to boot though, and good man for figuring out your motherboard was shorting, how do you spot/tell this?

Anyway, I had very similar problems with my computer when I got a new motherboard (nForce 3), basically XP would not load, even in safe mode. Thankfully I'd bought loads of new parts, including a new hard-drive, and plugging that in instead of the other HD and it worked after doing a fresh XP install. I then later moved across all my files simply by plugging the old HD in- so I guess the problem was XP not liking my new hardware setup for some reason...





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 Re: Computer Woes
Posted by Vash on Fri Dec 10th at 11:54am 2004

I have nothing installed yet, this is a completely fresh PC. It does not run POST, it allows me to run it if I push TAB (I can't though due to the freezing). As for spotting the Motherboard Shorting when it hits something, I don't know - Morpheus77 informed me about that .
[addsig]



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 Re: Computer Woes
Posted by Leperous on Fri Dec 10th at 11:59am 2004

Hmmph. Ok, more crap advice from me Could it be a RAM problem then? If you have more than one stick in there try booting with only one stick in there. Or could it be a graphics card problem, which can be checked by sticking your working one in? Or could it be you've buggered it with all the shorting?



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 Re: Computer Woes
Posted by scary_jeff on Fri Dec 10th at 12:03pm 2004

Well, you need to make your keyboard work. Possibilites:

Keyboard died (try in other PC)
Keyboard plugged in wrong place (sorry)
Keyboard is USB (use a ps2 adapter)

Make sure your PC speaker is plugged in. Does it beep at all? What beeps does it give? Can you turn num lock or caps lock on and off?

Take everything out except for graphics card (if there is no onboard graphics), CPU, and one memory stick. The only fan plugged in should be the CPU fan, and it should be connected to the motherboard CPU fan header, and not direct to the PSU or via a controller or anything else.

Your CPU isn't dead, but it might be overheating if the heatsink is seated wrong. I don't know if you've done it before, but the first time I put a heatsink on, I screwed it up completely You'll have to decide for yourself whether it's on properly.



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 Re: Computer Woes
Posted by Vash on Fri Dec 10th at 12:17pm 2004

I have tried six different keyboards. All of them were PS2 except for one which is PS2 / USB. The PC Speaker wires came out, so I need to wait until tonight so I can solder them back in. I cannot turn on NUM or CAP locks, but they do flash when the PC starts (like any other ones). I know it is freezing because I pressed the NUM lock one time when it flashed, and it stayed on - I could not turn it on or off.

The heat-sink was installed by the manufacturer (I think anyway, I need to check to make sure)

Will try your suggestions in a bit.
[addsig]



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 Re: Computer Woes
Posted by Jinx on Fri Dec 10th at 12:25pm 2004

blah, I don't have anything to say to help. I'm having my own issues. I think my primary HD is going bad.. but I didn't realize that Ghosting it to my secondary drive would delete all the other data on that drive :x Most of it was either backed up or mp3s ripped from my CDs, but that's still a lot of work to get back on there

DAMN THEM 'PUTERS!

this is what I get for working at a computer store I guess





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 Re: Computer Woes
Posted by Crono on Fri Dec 10th at 8:52pm 2004

I doubt the CPU is dead. If it were you wouldn't see anything. The fans might spin for half a second or something like that and the thing would turn off.

It might be the heat sync. Does it freeze before it allocates the ram? What about the devices.
If it freezes at the ram allocation, it is probably the ram. There may be something wrong with them, or they may have some setting that is not compatable (Buffering , for example). It may be anything up to you having the IDE cable on you floppy backwards. (I've seens several computers deal with this differently)

What do you mean by "the mother board was shorting"? Did you leave some metal touching in side or something cause it to fry? [addsig]



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 Re: Computer Woes
Posted by Vash on Sat Dec 11th at 4:49am 2004

The back of the mother-board has a metal panel on it, so it may have been touching the case. So I just unscrewed the entire mobo and now leave it stationary (until I can get everything running). Ram allocation isn't where its freezing, because it doesn't say anything about the ram. I do not have a Floppy Drive installed, only a DVD-ROM drive.
[addsig]



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 Re: Computer Woes
Posted by Nickelplate on Sat Dec 11th at 6:04am 2004

Here is what we do at work when something like this happens:

Remove ALL components EXCEPT for the video card. only leave one chip of RAM on the motherboard. See if it will boot without locking up. If it does add your components back one-by-one until it locks again. The one you just added is the one that is causeing the lockup.

If after you remove all components but the video card, it STILL locks up, change to a different RAM chip and change DIMM slots if the motherboard will let you.

If it STILL locks up, Change to a different video card. Borow from a friend if you can.

Pretty much you will be trying to use the process of elimination to see which part is bad and which are good.

[edit] Also remember to re-seat the CPU.

"If that doesn't work try sticking your penis in the bear cage at the zoo."

[addsig]



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 Re: Computer Woes
Posted by Crono on Sat Dec 11th at 6:15am 2004

? quote:
The back of the mother-board has a metal panel on it, so it may have
been touching the case. So I just unscrewed the entire mobo and now
leave it stationary (until I can get everything running). Ram
allocation isn't where its freezing, because it doesn't say anything
about the ram. I do not have a Floppy Drive installed, only a DVD-ROM
drive.



So, you're saying it doesn't allocate the ram amount? The way you wrote that sentence is a little confusing.

What is the last thing that is outputted to the screen before it freezes? (What you see)

Nickleplate, I doubt it's the video card since he can see output. I doubt it's the CPU since it isn't shutting it self off. (And if it was the heat sync the CPU would have been severly damaged after turning it on several times and having it freeze). It isn't the power supply, since it's freezing, not powering down. I would imagine it's the ram, board/chipset, or DVD drive. But most likely the ram. (Be nice to know where it freezes to be sure) [addsig]



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 Re: Computer Woes
Posted by Nickelplate on Sat Dec 11th at 8:58am 2004

? quoting Crono


Nickleplate, I doubt it's the video card since he can see output. I doubt it's the CPU since it isn't shutting it self off. (And if it was the heat sync the CPU would have been severly damaged after turning it on several times and having it freeze). It isn't the power supply, since it's freezing, not powering down. I would imagine it's the ram, board/chipset, or DVD drive. But most likely the ram. (Be nice to know where it freezes to be sure)

In my experience, things arent always ALL THE WAY broken. It could still be his video card or processor. If something is shorted and is causeing too much voltage to go to a component, it could be generating too much heat. today's chips have an auto-shutoff that doesnt shut own the comp, it simple locks up. so naturally, If the heatsink is not on correctly or soemthing. This is the type of work i do ALL DAY LONG. Stuff like this happens all the time. Computer parts are quirky, you know that.

but anyway, since he ALREADY shorted out his Motherboard, something could be permanently damaged, in which case he should send it back for warranty.

[addsig]



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 Re: Computer Woes
Posted by Crono on Sat Dec 11th at 9:36am 2004

Erm, the reason why the image stays on the screen is because of a computational halt (infinite loop or hardware error). If the CPU died the computer would power down. That IS a modern safety feature to protect everything else in your computer from suffering the same fate.

The ram is (obviously) partially working, since there are things on the screen. For something to be displayed on the screen the CPU needs to work (to whatever degree) as well as the chipset and the video card. But, there may be a problem somewhere else in ram that isn't accessed until allocation. It could be one small connection that is broken. Or one of the ram chips may be faulty.

It could possibly be one register inside the CPU. Or the cache.

[addsig]



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 Re: Computer Woes
Posted by scary_jeff on Sat Dec 11th at 10:41am 2004

It's heat sink

The reason he can't see the RAM counting or anything is because it's showing full screen logo.



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 Re: Computer Woes
Posted by Vash on Sat Dec 11th at 10:57am 2004

I hope this isn't a problem which will cost me more money...However this is MY life, so the possibilities of me having to spend more money is high.

I have four different video cards I can use to test with:

Radeon 9600XT
Nvidia GeForce 5600XT
Nvidia GeForce 3200XT (I think, its been a while since Ive used it - but its still an older Nvidia card)
Nvidia TNT2 (I think, again)

I am trying to find the brand-name for the RAM.
[addsig]



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 Re: Computer Woes
Posted by Crono on Sat Dec 11th at 11:26am 2004

I wasn't aware there was a boot screen, sorry

Vash, try looking at the board and all the ram for burn marks (black spots). I'm pretty sure it's a ram issue.

Is there anything else that happens? Does the computer get hot in any particular place (that shouldn't be hot)?

Look through your motherboard manual to see if there's a jumper setting to turn off the boot screen. If there isn't and it's bios only just stick with the ram idea.

I honestly doubt it's the video card. Even if the video card's fan stopped working it wouldn't freeze the computer. However, you would get artifacts up the ass all over your screen.

None of this should cause you to buy new parts ... as long as what you bought has a parts warrenty. You might have to pay for shipping back to whomever you purchased it from (if you can't get the stuff working).

Also, if you do send ANYTHING back, don't even think of mentioning there's a chance you fried ANYTHING. They will void your warrenty.
[addsig]



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 Re: Computer Woes
Posted by fraggard on Sat Dec 11th at 11:38am 2004

There is usually a BIOS setting to disable the boot screen. It's called "Enable Silent Boot" on my machine, so maybe it'll be something similar for you.

Once you disable that, enable the RAM test. If it doesn't run through you'll know where the error is.

PS: I didnt read through much of the thread except the first and last post. I might have missed something, sorry if I did)



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 Re: Computer Woes
Posted by Vash on Sat Dec 11th at 11:53am 2004

I cannot activate something via software due to the fact that the computer freezes. Unless its hardware wise, it cannot be done as of now.

[EDIT]
? quoting

1GB PC3200 DDR400 Non-ECC Unbuffered DDR SDRAM
B.: NO ADDITIONAL HEAT SINK (+$0)
C.: PLEASE INSTALL THE HEATSINK FOR MY MEMORY (+$0)
Module =: A. OEM 1GB PC3200 -1 Year Warranty 15% restocking fee(+$0)
Sid: 3
Testing.: Test my memory before ship out (+$3.99)
Type: 2
Warranty =: Life Time Warranty

(RAM Specs)

[addsig]



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 Re: Computer Woes
Posted by gimpinthesink on Sat Dec 11th at 11:59am 2004

This may not work as your pc doesnt get through the post but install the D Bracket that came with your motherboard (if you havent already) and see what configuration of lights comes on when it freezes and then reffer to your manual and it should tell you what the problem is.

As I said it may not work because its not getting through post so it may not get to the poin where the lights are working properly.





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