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NS2.wad
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 Re: NS2.wad
Posted by Hornpipe2 on Mon Oct 6th at 2:55pm 2003

For those of you who don't check the Natural Selection page often but are interested in mapping for it, a new texture pack has been released with some 300 textures in the wad.  Apparently they are pretty nice.  I highly suggest checking it out - approximately a 9 megabyte download. [addsig]



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 Re: NS2.wad
Posted by Juim on Mon Oct 6th at 3:05pm 2003

" This download is only for people actively creating NS maps" (quote from NS website)

I like the textures but this exclusivity thing is a tad annoying.

Why release it then slap on these ridiculous parameters with regard to their usage?

Oh well I guess it's only suggested, as theres no controlling it after you make it publicly available, hehehe. I'll use them only as directed

 





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 Re: NS2.wad
Posted by KoRnFlakes on Mon Oct 6th at 3:29pm 2003

heh, They were the same with the origional ns texture but truth is allot of them u could get elsewhere. [addsig]



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 Re: NS2.wad
Posted by Vash on Mon Oct 6th at 3:34pm 2003

And berny boy released a texture pack of 2000 photo realistic textures http://www.planetquake.com/berneyboy/ [addsig]



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 Re: NS2.wad
Posted by Cash Car Star on Mon Oct 6th at 5:13pm 2003

? posted by Juim

" This download is only for people actively creating NS maps" (quote from NS website)

I like the textures but this exclusivity thing is a tad annoying.

Why release it then slap on these ridiculous parameters with regard to their usage?

Ridiculous parameters? These were created for a mod, by the mod team, certainly asking they be used only with that mod is not a ridiculous parameter. One you may not agree with, sure, but ridiculous? hardly.





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 Re: NS2.wad
Posted by Juim on Mon Oct 6th at 5:44pm 2003

Well maybe the term ridiculous was a bit  extreme, but you get my point. If I was to lets say use the textures in something other than an NS map, would they be angry?

Why?. I should think they would be flattered to have so much interest in something they created.Lets face it those are very nicely made. Not a loser in the bunch.

 All I'm saying is that once you release something publicly, you have absolutely no control over it so putting those instructions on your web page seems a bit superflous at best. Better that they should require a credit given in the text for each usage. Thats how you build a name for yourself. The more you are emulated the more you know how well people like what you are doing.

I was'nt bashing them just so you know.





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 Re: NS2.wad
Posted by DocRock on Mon Oct 6th at 7:39pm 2003

This conversation always ends up the same way...no matter how much complaining is done (by either the wad artist or the level designer), there is never a common ground found.  It's either called "stealing textures" or "flattery."

IMO, if a texture set is publicly advertised on the internet, then I think anyone who has access to said wad is entitled to it (as long as it is acknowldeged in a readme...or perhaps even ask permission of the original author).  If level designer uses only a small portion of the wad, or even one picture from the wad, then the whole wad doesn't need to be acknowledged...just generally acknowledged as a source on the internet, if even at all.

Ditto for someone using someone else's map as a base for a map.  If you base your new map on someone else's map, then sure, you need to acknowledge it in readme (or perhaps even ask permission of the original author).  However, if you only base your map on a certain section of another map, then there is no need to mention it.

Anyways...my 2 cents on the matter at hand.





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 Re: NS2.wad
Posted by Cash Car Star on Mon Oct 6th at 8:09pm 2003

I don't agree with that at all. Reference ANYTHING, even one small 16x16 square, and you better mention you used it. Plagiarism is just bad form. Argue fair use all you want, but not giving credit at all is just not cool (In fact, immediate grounds for expulsion from my current university - and it has been invoked so in the past).



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 Re: NS2.wad
Posted by Hornpipe2 on Mon Oct 6th at 8:29pm 2003

? posted by Cash Car Star
and it has been invoked so in the past

On you?

[addsig]



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 Re: NS2.wad
Posted by Cash Car Star on Mon Oct 6th at 8:51pm 2003

Don't be an idiot. If it had been then I wouldn't still be here.



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 Re: NS2.wad
Posted by Hornpipe2 on Mon Oct 6th at 9:02pm 2003

? posted by Cash Car Star
Don't be an idiot. If it had been then I wouldn't still be here.

Your highly evolved sense of humor has somehow failed to capture a trace of "joke" eminating from my previous post.  You might want to have that checked out.

[addsig]



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 Re: NS2.wad
Posted by Campaignjunkie on Mon Oct 6th at 11:49pm 2003

Well a good amount of NS textures are from Shaderlab. And one of my texture artist friends says some textures are ripped from a Marlin Studios Sci-Fi texture CD or something. Not really sure if it's true or not though.

[addsig]



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 Re: NS2.wad
Posted by Leperous on Tue Oct 7th at 12:01am 2003

Although it would seem that technically you can copyright such textures, I'm sure you could easily get away with using a handful of textures in your map under a 'fair use' excuse. Plus , in the US you can't start any legal proceedings against someone for infringing on your copyright until you've registered your work with the copyright office (plus the fact that no damages whatsoever could be inflicted from such use). So it all seems a bit anal, really :/

And following on from CJ, I think if a court case should proceed, you'd have to prove that all the NS textures are original work from the said authors- I believe the copyright holds for the whole WAD instead of each texture as that is the way they are released- after all, authors don't copyright each individual chapter...





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 Re: NS2.wad
Posted by GrimlocK on Tue Oct 7th at 12:05am 2003

? posted by Vash
And berny boy released a texture pack of 2000 photo realistic textures http://www.planetquake.com/berneyboy/

I just checked out those textures and honestly I wasn't impressed TBH.   Some of them seemed pretty good judging from the samples, one would think that a person would put some of the BEST in the samples so based on that I'd say half would look decent.   The texture with the lion and the other sample with the window screams photoshop newbie though.   In all a good effort on his/her part though, I really liked some of the samples such as the rusty indented pattern and the bush though.

I'm going to DL the new NS wad to disect it later.   





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 Re: NS2.wad
Posted by KungFuSquirrel on Tue Oct 7th at 12:17am 2003

? quote:
Well a good amount?of NS textures are from Shaderlab. And one of my texture artist friends says some textures are ripped from a Marlin Studios Sci-Fi texture CD or something. Not really sure if it's true or not though.</FONT>


A number of textures in the original ns.wad were collected by Relic25 for his work on ns_bast before it was an NS map - the textures carried over, however. Almost all other textures were created from scratch by Cory Strader, with a few by Mark James, Jon Chapman, and a few copy/paste jobs here and there by a few other folks. The ns2.wad file is 100% from scratch by Cory. The NS team has never claimed that textures not created explicitly for NS are their own, and Flayra has been frustrated to all ends by the issues raised by Relic's inclusion of the shader lab and other textures (Golgotha open source stuff, etc). Flay has time and time again scolded people for using the shader lab textures and other non-Cory textures for maps for use in official submission for the very reason you can see in action here. [addsig]



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 Re: NS2.wad
Posted by Campaignjunkie on Tue Oct 7th at 12:58am 2003

Quoth the NS FAQ:

? quote:
Can I use the NS textures, technology, game world, concept art or anything else for any purpose other then Natural Selection?

No. The team has worked very hard to create the NS universe. Please don't e-mail or post asking to use our textures, models or technology for other projects. You can, however, use any artwork from NS for an NS fansite, or NS community resource. You may never use anything from NS to make money, nor may you ever state or imply that any NS assets were made by anyone other then the NS team.

What the heck is that about? I mean, why is that statement even in there? Seems kind of paranoid or something. Geeze. Or perhaps he's talking about different assets, such as concept art? Anyway, the statement seems a bit unorthodox.

[addsig]



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 Re: NS2.wad
Posted by KungFuSquirrel on Tue Oct 7th at 1:02am 2003

I know of at least one occassion where people have claimed that the NS team ripped off original NS content from a texture pack that was created using ripped off NS textures. Things like that tend to try your patience. [addsig]



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 Re: NS2.wad
Posted by Leperous on Tue Oct 7th at 10:26am 2003

I guess a 'mod team' is also a clearly defined entity from a courts perspective



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 Re: NS2.wad
Posted by KungFuSquirrel on Tue Oct 7th at 11:24am 2003

Flay has spent thousands on NS, including all sorts of varying legal bits including (but not limited to) full copyright registration. The name is trademarked, and NS is the first mod to have, well, foxed fox. Remember AvP2: Natural Selection? Oh, wait, they had to change the name to Primal Hunt. [addsig]



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 Re: NS2.wad
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Oct 7th at 1:01pm 2003

personally, and i know its not a popular view, but if someone posts a link to an object, be it wad,map, or whatever, it becomes public domain, you can think its copyrighted till doomsday, but the fact remains, it won't be heeded advice...

its almost as stupid as attempting to corral the MP3's of songs, that can be recorded off the airways, why pick on the medium of exchange?

people have been recording songs played on radio's for decades, it never hurt a soul, now the internet is doing it, probably with little more frequency, but now someone bitches

i for one, had 100's of cassette tapes all made from radio.. i have far fewer MP3's.. i may be an exception, but i still think its valid..

the textures in question here.. well, i think that the asshole who posted the link, should be shot for causing all this fuss.. he could have sent the link privately to anyone involved..

[addsig]




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