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HL2 mapping vs. HL1 mapping
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 Re: HL2 mapping vs. HL1 mapping
Posted by Junkyard God on Sun Jan 2nd at 9:58pm 2005

Hey,

i was wondering if anyone else here sticks with HL1 mapping instead o hl2 mapping, i think hl2 mapping is boring, as it has way to much to do with props and stuff liek that, that makes the map just beeing a couple of blocks, with osme props, and it looks nice.

i like hl1 mapping more , becouse it's much more of a challenge to make it look good and nice, and it's way nice to add details be yourself instead of using all the props.

maybe when people have more custom textures this will change, but for now, it's way less fun and addictive ans hl1 mapping, i'm sticking to hl1 mapping, is anyone else too?

[addsig]



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 Re: HL2 mapping vs. HL1 mapping
Posted by G.Ballblue on Sun Jan 2nd at 10:03pm 2005

The harder mapping gets, the less I'll like it

I was surprised to hear that HL2 used the hammer system for mapping -- I figured some kind of insane program similar to UnrealEd was being used. As far as HL2 mapping difficulty goes for, I think it's pretty easy I also like how you are forced to work with a vmf -- no map file confusion! vis groups for all!

The prop thing is the mapping systems strength, yet weakness in my opinion. It's very easy to take pre-esembled models and toss them into your level. The problem is, is that HL2 is very model based, I doubt you could do all that same detail with just world brushes or func_walls (without driving your budget mad). That's where the problem lies though -- in order to get new props, you need to learn to model with XSI... Argh!

/rant

I enjoy HL2 mapping -- but I'd like to release some sven-coop1 maps before I move on to any major HL2 stuff.

[addsig]



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 Re: HL2 mapping vs. HL1 mapping
Posted by Andrei on Sun Jan 2nd at 10:07pm 2005

? quoting G.Ballblue
UnrealEd

*vomits profusely*

Thank God Hammer and that...that...thing have nothing in common!

[addsig]



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 Re: HL2 mapping vs. HL1 mapping
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Sun Jan 2nd at 10:07pm 2005

If you're relying upon props to make your maps look nice then you're doing a s**tty job. In my current map the majority of the detail is done with brushes, and it's perfectly fast. The engine can handle many more brushes than the old one as well, and with smart optimization and design you can keep FPS high.

[addsig]



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 Re: HL2 mapping vs. HL1 mapping
Posted by Andrei on Sun Jan 2nd at 10:10pm 2005

Depends on the type of map you're making. [addsig]



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 Re: HL2 mapping vs. HL1 mapping
Posted by omegaslayer on Sun Jan 2nd at 10:21pm 2005

? quote:
? quoting G.Ballblue
UnrealEd

*vomits profusely*

Thank God Hammer and that...that...thing have nothing in common!



Off topic: You must have never used the unreal ed then, because it is much more powerful than hammer (and a lot of things are simplified). They both use CSG and the unreal ed makes the CSG constuction much easier, just watch the tutorials all over the internet, and you will discover that the unreal ed is better (its just hard to get used to). Same goes for the D3 editor (IN GAME LIGHTING ROCKS).

Back to topic: the new hammer is nuch more user friendly, and its simplified things a lot more. Like displacement surfaces are easy to do compared to persay in the old hammer (where you would have to build it brush by brush). The only thing I dont care about the new hammer, is that it wont line up models to the grid, no matter what I do.
[addsig]



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 Re: HL2 mapping vs. HL1 mapping
Posted by 7dk2h4md720ih on Sun Jan 2nd at 10:34pm 2005

? quote:
i like hl1 mapping more , becouse it's much more of a challenge to make it look good and nice, and it's way nice to add details be yourself instead of using all the props.



Why can't you just map the exact same way? Nowhere does it say that you must use props. Half-life maps looked 'good' about four years ago. While some are very impressive given the limitations of the engine, they're way off what can be achieved in other engines.




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 Re: HL2 mapping vs. HL1 mapping
Posted by Junkyard God on Sun Jan 2nd at 10:54pm 2005

TwoKnives:

fistly: i can not map normal becouse the texture aplication tool (one of he msot important htings of hammer) is slow as hell, and halfthe time my system crashes when i click it.

second, i think hl1 mapping is quicker nad more comfortable, if i make a hl1 map in hl2 it will look s**t becouse everyone is using 1000000 props to make their maps look good,

other than that:
Displacement tool is s**t in my opinion, becouse if you make like a hill, it's hard to even place props (<= argh!) on the ground PROPerly (<= eehw). i can make hilly terrain in hl1 just fine with triangle terrain.

HL1 maps do not looks bad compared to hl2 maps, you take half of the good hl1 maps and they are all better than the hl2 maps, only thing is that the textures etc. are way more detailed in hl2 and the graphics are nicer, but if you would look at the architecture , ost of the hl1 maps are way better than hl2 maps.
I've only seen like 3 good hl maps so far and they were made by good mappers, while i've seen some realy nice hl1 maps made by 'worse' mappers.

my conclusion is that hl1 mapping is not limited or whatever, and it still is better than hl2 mapping.

but that IS just my opinion

[addsig]



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 Re: HL2 mapping vs. HL1 mapping
Posted by Vash on Sun Jan 2nd at 10:55pm 2005

I like Half-Life 2 mapping better than Half-Life 1. Half-Life 1 was too restrictive.

[EDIT]

I had to edit this post after reading Biopulse's reply. You sir are insane. Do not call Half-Life 2 mapping crappy just because your system has a hard time running it. Props are used because the engine has an easier time drawing models than bsp geometry and the displacement tool is good for idiots like me who could never do triangle terrian. Half-Life 2 mapping is much better than Half-Life 1. There are no restrictions, and the main reason that many Half-Life 1 levels look better than Half-Life 2 levels is because HL2 just came out. Give people time to use the tools rather than demanding great quality work in a short time.

Half-Life 1 has been out for five years. Half-Life 2 has been out for 2 months.
[addsig]



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 Re: HL2 mapping vs. HL1 mapping
Posted by Andrei on Sun Jan 2nd at 11:11pm 2005

I can't understand why ppl keep whining about the new hammer! Consider yourselves lucky! Unlike me, you don't have to learn how to use a new editor when moving on to HL2 mapping. You switch from Hammer to Hammer. I had to switch from QuArK to Hammer. And they don't have much in common.

[addsig]



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 Re: HL2 mapping vs. HL1 mapping
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Jan 2nd at 11:12pm 2005

? quoting Andrei
Depends on the type of map you're making.

Exactly. there are two types. 1) correct, and 2) incorrect.

the theme doesn't matter, if you map correctly, your map will always turn out fine.

if a map goes wrong, it was the authors fault, not the engines. do not exceed the limits and it will work OK.

[addsig]



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 Re: HL2 mapping vs. HL1 mapping
Posted by Andrei on Sun Jan 2nd at 11:26pm 2005

BTW:

? quoting Orpheus
I will be beginning a map soon, one never attempted in all of HL history.

Hmm? Is that simply a gag or are you serious?

[addsig]



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 Re: HL2 mapping vs. HL1 mapping
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Jan 2nd at 11:31pm 2005

? quoting Andrei

BTW:

? quoting Orpheus
I will be beginning a map soon, one never attempted in all of HL history.

Hmm? Is that simply a gag or are you serious?

oh its serious, but i cannot seem to gain access to my mapping PC

my son says "but dad, we were gone 5 whole days going to oregon"

[addsig]



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 Re: HL2 mapping vs. HL1 mapping
Posted by half-dude on Sun Jan 2nd at 11:38pm 2005

I find that it would be very hard to make a sp mod with the monsters in HL 2. Think about it, you have soldiers that don't look humen, flying whales, zombies, headcrab varients, star ship trooper wana bees and helicopters, that's about it. Were in HL 1 you have about four different types of humen soldiers, and a wide range of alien types. In my opinion HL 1 is much more easy to make a mod out of without knowing how to make models. That's why I must use it to make Xenophobia. [addsig]



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 Re: HL2 mapping vs. HL1 mapping
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Jan 2nd at 11:46pm 2005

how can you spell a word as big as xenophobia correctly, but you cannot spell human?

listen to me, the worst speller known

[addsig]



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 Re: HL2 mapping vs. HL1 mapping
Posted by Leperous on Sun Jan 2nd at 11:52pm 2005

? quoting BioPulse
Hey,

i was wondering if anyone else here sticks with HL1 mapping instead o hl2 mapping, i think hl2 mapping is boring, as it has way to much to do with props and stuff liek that, that makes the map just beeing a couple of blocks, with osme props, and it looks nice.

Nonsense, it's practically the same process as before but now you have these props to add detail to your levels- not to mention displacement surfaces! It is hard, and I am sorry that your PC currently isn't good enough to cope with mapping, but that's life for you





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 Re: HL2 mapping vs. HL1 mapping
Posted by Vash on Mon Jan 3rd at 12:00am 2005

Thats why its called 'modding' half-dude.
[addsig]



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 Re: HL2 mapping vs. HL1 mapping
Posted by 7dk2h4md720ih on Mon Jan 3rd at 3:39am 2005

? quote:
TwoKnives:

second, i think hl1 mapping is quicker nad more comfortable, if i make a hl1 map in hl2 it will look s**t becouse everyone is using 1000000 props to make their maps look good,

Good point except later on your post you say that HL1 maps look better than HL2 ones. Awesome word Dr. Contradiction!

other than that:
Displacement tool is s**t in my opinion, becouse if you make like a hill, it's hard to even place props (<= argh!) on the ground PROPerly (<= eehw). i can make hilly terrain in hl1 just fine with triangle terrain.

You can still use the old method.

HL1 maps do not looks bad compared to hl2 maps, you take half of the good hl1 maps and they are all better than the hl2 maps, only thing is that the textures etc. are way more detailed in hl2 and the graphics are nicer, but if you would look at the architecture , ost of the hl1 maps are way better than hl2 maps.
I've only seen like 3 good hl maps so far and they were made by good mappers, while i've seen some realy nice hl1 maps made by 'worse' mappers.

Halflife2 is barely out, of course there are no great maps.

my conclusion is that hl1 mapping is not limited or whatever, and it still is better than hl2 mapping.

The grid is imited, the amount of entities, brushes, faces etc are all limited.

but that IS just my opinion

Newsflash: It's wrong.



Of course I'm just kidding and I don't care what you do, just keeping up the appearance of being an ass. Oh and I wanted to abuse the rolleyes smiley, which I'm ghey for.




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 Re: HL2 mapping vs. HL1 mapping
Posted by Mouse on Mon Jan 3rd at 4:01am 2005

I love the new entity I/O system. It makes things so much more organized and clear. And props are pretty cool, also. There's only so many soda machines and crates you can put in your HL1 level. Lighting is easier to use now that you can just point the spot light wherever you want it to shine. Compile times are exceptionally quicker, especially with the func_detail entity. And then there's displacements, which I find to be a bitch to use but when they're done right they look great. Oh and parenting is a good new feature, as well. Soundscapes are cool as hell once you figure them out. There's a lot of great new stuff.

The only thing I'd really give HL1 over HL2DM is gameplay. HL2DM is just not as strong as HL1DM.




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 Re: HL2 mapping vs. HL1 mapping
Posted by Nickelplate on Mon Jan 3rd at 5:20am 2005

I think HL2 Mapping Owns the s**t out of Hl1 Mapping. I LOVE the worldcraft/hammer interface, i love overlays, displacements, props of ALL kinds, and one thing i am absolutely gaga aobut is the fact that you can LINK entities to move with eachother, Like a swinging light AND it's light source swinging on a cable (realistically, too) I would say that just about anyone who likes HL1 mapping more than HL2 Is just afraid of change. These are probably the same ppl that are STILL whining about STEAM "having to connect every time" (even though I don't really care for it.) I think you have just got to get used to the changes and get on with your life. You know the original Half-Life is 6 years old!!! I'd say that mapping for it has a half-life of about 3 years-- meaning that it's dead. Move on. [addsig]




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