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Religion & Tsunamis
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 Re: Religion & Tsunamis
Posted by Leperous on Wed Jan 5th at 12:30pm 2005

Natural disasters are nothing new, but at least in this country right now a lot of people are discussing God and "why" he may have caused this tsunami. I would like to know if anyone's faith has changed at all due to this event (in either direction) or has been challenged at all, and your own religion-related thoughts on this topic

As I type this there is an interesting debate on the radio, with a Christian, Muslim, and Hindu- in a nutshell, the Christian says the topic is hard and it doesn't matter as he has Christ and it is how we respond that matters, the Muslim says that the more we suffer in life the greater our reward in the afterlife (which is what it's all about), and the Hindu says that we have interpreted god incorrectly and he's not this all-powerful, all-loving thing we think he is, which we have imposed on him, but is something more "fundamental" to the Universe's working.

Personally, this hasn't changed my "faith" one bit (I am an atheist) as far worse has happend under God's Nose, though it is interesting from my standpoint to hear the political non-answers being given out by all the religions- I heard one argument that it was actually our fault as we as human beings have the ability to prevent this sort of thing from happening (though the counter-arguement is that if a God caused this he full well knew what would happen). And I get the sense that some may regard this as a "test", but a test by which god?





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 Re: Religion & Tsunamis
Posted by Mephs on Wed Jan 5th at 12:43pm 2005

I'd say that I would be more inclined to side with your Hindu. The view of the personal god that does good for the good and punishes the bad obviously doesn't apply here (unless only the righteous live in-land). God doesn't answer prayers or smite the wicked. I'm sure we are all part of some grand scheme, but in my opinion god doesn't care enough to start tidal waves, nor sadly, does he care enough to rescue people.

[addsig]



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 Re: Religion & Tsunamis
Posted by Adam Hawkins on Wed Jan 5th at 12:58pm 2005

Personally, I find religion to be the easy way out of trying to explain something. Besides, if there was/is a God, wouldn't it/he/she have become bored of toying with us thousands of years ago?

It's like playing with an ants nest in the back garden. It's fun stamping on them and watching more flood out, but after a while it gets boring and you just go and pour the boiling water in there and kill the whole damn lot of 'em.

No, I don't think 'God' had anything to do with it. It was a terrible tragedy, and we should be looking more into how we can help these people rather than stamp 'religious' connotations to it.

[addsig]



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 Re: Religion & Tsunamis
Posted by pepper on Wed Jan 5th at 1:04pm 2005

ive always seen religion as a powerfull tool to control the mass amount of people.
now as far as i know there cant be a god.
some some simple reasons:
1. we are here on earch, a tiny planet in the galaxy, the milkway, the milkway is in the galaxy, that is all very small. now lets take a big ass red giant(dying star). it sucks up all of its energy in a black hole(collaps of the energy). those will be 2 giant bundles of energy(gamma-radiation). those beams destroy everything on there way. so if one will hit earth then where screwed. and that is a BIG chance.

2. there a millions of comets on a possible intercept course wiht earth, as far as i know where are lucky that where still here. because one of those probably destroyed the dinosaurs.

now why would some god want this to happend to us?

i hope i explained the 1 point right, i cant really translate it very well to english.
[addsig]



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 Re: Religion & Tsunamis
Posted by parakeet on Wed Jan 5th at 1:21pm 2005

lol pepper, you kinda reinforced the possibility of a god by the fact that we havent been hit by a big ass red giant's radiation yet = P and that its a big chance. Bout the comets well we have lived through em all. Not to offend your beliefs as this of course is a flame free topic. About the tidal wave and earthquake and all its a horrible tradgedy it could be a test or it could have been a nice ol' friendly slaughter that have been planned to come around along with bunches of other stuff "all water on the planet turning to blood" "war" "mass famine" "diseases" to see who in the world is left that have faith. so u hear bout waters turning to blood or mass dissaperances = P on the news, good luck. There supposedly will be a time when people will want to die but arent allowed till the 7 years of wrath are up. oh yes my faith has grown for christianity answering the first q = P i do believe in a god, and i do believe he caused the disaster,I don't feel bad for the ones that died because they are dead and are *beyond our world(depending on your religion) .. i feel bad for the ones that are living and without a home,without food
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 Re: Religion & Tsunamis
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Wed Jan 5th at 1:33pm 2005

How the hell can anyone's view of God be changed by a natural disaster? Last time I checked tectonic forces are what caused the tsunami, not some supernatural force. It boggles my mind that anyone could think otherwise, but I'm well aware that it happens. Some Americans probably believe this, and it pisses me off. It's not like science and religion can't mostly coexist for crying out loud.

bah, religion, don't get me started!

[addsig]



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 Re: Religion & Tsunamis
Posted by Jahzel on Wed Jan 5th at 1:41pm 2005

Ok, it's not the most popular idea expressed but as far as I can say, this 'natural' disaster has New World Order written all over it. Now that the countries effected by the disaster are annihilated, the 'Saints come marching in' to save everybody while taking over. This is what's been done for years, it's called 'problem-reaction-solution', or 'Order out of Chaos'. The same old globalist puppets are 'joining together' and urging 'global co-operation' in order to save everyone. Of course it would be great to save lives and help those affected, but you must realise that the Globalists are truly evil and will exploit a disaster to introduce new methods of gaining total control.

The Globalists have always sought to develop a one world government, a global fascist state. This agenda has been happening for years, and if you open your eyes you should see that it is nearing completion. Now that the Middle East is under Globalist control because of the so-called 'War on Terror', other regions of the world affected by the disaster are now going to be under Globalist control. The Red Cross, those who are in charge of 'saving lives' will keep most of the funding as they did post 9/11.

It is also a fact that the technology to manipulate climate and earth activity exists today and has done for some time. Why use conventional weaponry when you have the technology to manipulate climate and earth activity and cause a 'natural' disaster?

This also makes sure that there is no great outrage at the attrocities committed. It would appear as though a 'natural' disaster was responsible for the deaths and not the political enemy. A nuclear bomb would cause great devestation but also cause great outrage in the public spectacle. And for all the religious people it would appear that 'God punished the enemy'.

Go to:

www.prisonplanet.com

www.infowars.com

www.davidicke.com/icke/headlines

To find out about this information.

Anyway, that's enough said for now. I'll talk about it later.

[addsig]



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 Re: Religion & Tsunamis
Posted by parakeet on Wed Jan 5th at 1:43pm 2005

? quote:
How the hell can anyone's view of God be changed by a natural disaster? Last time I checked tectonic forces are what caused the tsunami, not some supernatural force. It boggles my mind that anyone could think otherwise, but I'm well aware that it happens. Some Americans probably believe this, and it pisses me off. It's not like science and religion can't mostly coexist for crying out loud.

bah, religion, don't get me started!



well if he created the world wouldnt he know all the tectonic actions of the future? *im not gonna smear ur beliefs = P i can understand where your coming from, my bro feels the same way. and secondly please dont stereotype it into americans = religious people cuz most ive seen arent. religion is something that man has always belived in , nobody really knows why. But it can give a man pride , hatred , and love. Religion is possibly a manifistation of our emotions. Either way i still believe in mine

Gtg
[addsig]



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 Re: Religion & Tsunamis
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Wed Jan 5th at 1:55pm 2005

First off I'm American, so I detest my fellow Americans being stupid. Secondly, I'd say that the US is undergoing another religious re-awakening (or whatever they're called, I haven't taken US history in ages), and as a member of a minority religion (Catholic ) I'd rather be spared all that bulls**t. But instead we have Bush in power and people voting over morals instead of issues...it's very obvious that religion is reemerging in the American psyche.

[addsig]



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 Re: Religion & Tsunamis
Posted by Nickelplate on Wed Jan 5th at 2:07pm 2005

God is punishing the infidels. (those nice hindus were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.) *insert irony here*

Christians were the least of the casualties. Indonesia has the largest muslim populations in the world. This is not what i REALLY THINK, per se, but rather just a random theory. If christianity IS the right way to go, and muslims are attacking christianity, maybe a god that loves his peeps is sticking up for them by kicking ass in the biggest muslim country we've got. But i dont thinkgod would do that. that is about as fair as Islamists trying to kill ALL christians for the bad deeds of the crusaders and the English in the 1800's.

? quoting Yak_Fighter
it's very obvious that religion is reemerging in the American psyche.

From where I am ppl are just now starting to get OUT of religion. I live in the redneck hills of missouri, we're behind the times here...

[addsig]



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 Re: Religion & Tsunamis
Posted by Forceflow on Wed Jan 5th at 2:13pm 2005

I don't really believe in God, guess I just believe in people helping people. And that's what's for us to do.
[addsig]



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 Re: Religion & Tsunamis
Posted by Captain P on Wed Jan 5th at 2:38pm 2005

Well, the bible states that in the end of times disasters and wars will be much more frequent, so it's rather a reassurement than a blow to my faith...

As for such disasters, I don't think God creates them as a sort of punishment. Each person shall be judged after his life for his own actions (and unless they've accepted Jesus as an offering for their sins, they'll have to pay the price for their sins themselves). I think it's much more the curse of sin that came over this world after Adam and Eve disobeyed God that causes these events.

Anyway, it's not fun what's happening. I hope the survivors can stay alive and help will arrive where it's needed...
[addsig]



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 Re: Religion & Tsunamis
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Jan 5th at 2:40pm 2005

? quoting Yak_Fighter
Secondly, I'd say that the US is undergoing another religious re-awakening

side note: i have noticed this too. i have real issues with churches the size of shopping malls going up everywhere, yet people are still hungry. i have issues with my tax dollars helping put them up, and i have REAL issues with them not paying taxes on the building and whatnot.

most of this i have heard through the rumor mill, so i am not positive about the tax parts.

the way i see things going, its a last ditch effort to re-instill the fables and pagan belief system into the newer generations. i have met good people, and bad people, but being religious never signified which you would be. in fact i have met more genuinely evil people whom profess religious beliefs. *shrugs*

anywho's, i do however believe that natural disasters make you wonder about your place in the scheme of things. no one wants to face their mortality. and when its driven home so strongly as when something in nature takes a punch at you, people tend to look for the easy way out.

i know they will never outlaw religion, but i sure wish the people would wise up and smell the coffee.

[addsig]



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 Re: Religion & Tsunamis
Posted by gimpinthesink on Wed Jan 5th at 2:43pm 2005

I beleve it was all to do with the movement of tectonic plates not the wrath of almighty god. I beleve there is no god because the bible was written by numerous people even for one part there are four different versions of the book of genisis (i think its geninis I know its one of the first ones)

and the main thing that makes me beleve there is no god is that its supposed to be male and supposed to have created the world and hevens in 7 days now no man would have done that much work on his own for not really any reason in 7 days it would have taken him much longer I'd say acoupple of years at least. [addsig]



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 Re: Religion & Tsunamis
Posted by Jahzel on Wed Jan 5th at 3:18pm 2005

Well, the next agenda in the New World Order is a One World Religion, most likely Christianity. Muslims, who are being demonised everyday, are going to be put in FEMA concentration camps in America, this is admitted, these are the current proposals.

Those of you who don't know, Al-CIAeda was funded/trained in America and hired to carry out the attacks on September 11th. Problem-Reaction-Solution. The official explanation of 9/11 is falling apart and people are beginning to realise the whole thing was a stepping stone to a global fascist/police state. Already 9/11 has enabled them to create the human rights-removing Patriot Acts and Homeland (In)Security.

War on Terror = More terror attacks and alerts and general scaremongering.

War on Illiteracy = More Illiteracy

War on Drugs = More Drugs

etc

Probably next-up: War on Natural Disasters = More Natural Disasters

[addsig]



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 Re: Religion & Tsunamis
Posted by xconspirisist on Wed Jan 5th at 3:45pm 2005

Yak, you'll have religious people argue that *god* moved the techtonic plates, constantly hitting the subject with science wont really make a good argument.

That seems a bit extreme Jahzel, but I guess it is realistic - the US faked the moon landing for a plethora of benifits.


For what it's worth, Im athiest, and I despise all goverments and such forms of power. Bah, Life is just one big conspiracy theory.


[addsig]



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 Re: Religion & Tsunamis
Posted by Jahzel on Wed Jan 5th at 3:50pm 2005

Good to see someone else who is interested in conspiracy

Yeah, the moon landings were faked. Notice how the so-called 'skeptics' try to debunk anyone who tries to uncover the moon landing fraud. Makes you wonder just what a skeptic is nowadays.

[addsig]



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 Re: Religion & Tsunamis
Posted by Leperous on Wed Jan 5th at 4:12pm 2005

Don't throw us off-topic with some fake-moon-landing and conspiracy nonsense please.

Anyway, perhaps some god didn't set off the earthquake itself, but he still would have had power to stop it...





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 Re: Religion & Tsunamis
Posted by pepper on Wed Jan 5th at 4:18pm 2005

well, here is my theory about the earthquake:
the whole globe is divided in pieces of landmass whom move free over the magma of the earth. once in a while one hits another, at such a point then can move over ore under eachother ore push up mauntains. when this happends under see this makes a tidle wave. a so called tsunami. a god wind if i remeber right. some of these tsunamis are in the beginning harmles, no more then a movement in the see. as soon as they approach shallow water they start growing in height and and and speed. now there getting dangerous, boats are getting sucked up in the waves and taken to the beach. as soon as the wave enters the beach it will destroy everything on its path. the first wave isnt the worse. its a whole series of waves whom makes the destructive effect. the people where actualy lucky that the waves where not that high, there are reports of 30 meter high tsunami waves.

lets go back in time to the year 1946. a earthquake on a island in front of the west-african coast.
this earthquake caused a landslide and half of the islands slides a few metres down. a trench now excist in this place. the vulcanos calm down and everyone picks up there life. then research start thinking about things that WILL happend. the stone combination in the island is strange, there are giant solid walls in the island wich causes the water to be stored in some reservoir under the ground. but thats not the problem yet. when one of those vulcanos go crazy, one of the 2 is active at the moment. it will be bad. the stored water will boil, but it wont get away and causes a hugh presure on the rocks. then the magma is getting is way up and turns into lava. now we have a problem! the water is expanding big time and ripping the island apart.

wiht a staggaring pressure one half of the island slides into the see, the part that is sliding into sea is so big that it will cause a tsunami. this tsunami will head for the east coast of america wiht a wave height of 650 metres and a between 750-100 kilometres a hour. it will reach the coast in 8 hours, at this time there will be not much left of new-york.

this is a very precautious model of swedish researchers after years of work. its very hard to create such a thing. so it might be bigger of smaller, there not sure.
imagine how many victims this will create.

this all doesnt sounds like the work of god, and i certainly do not believe in a fake book written by some author noone knows.it might be a best seller, its still a bad story.

and of god did create the earth, he did a damn bad job. placing us in a unfavoreble place.
oh and a meteorite did hit the earth, one metre long in 1906(not sure of date) in russia, it hit a forest, trees where blowen down to the ground in more then a kilometre radius.

and remember the gulf of mexico? possibly created by a meteorite. and the crater in america(dont know where).
and offcourse the best of all: the moon.
scientists think the moon once was a part of the earth, but in the early years th earth got hit by a meteorite, it ripped the earth apart in 2 peaces, the second one became a satalite of the earth: the moon.

and a few years ago a meteorite of a few kilometres dodged the earth on a few hundredhousend kilometres if im right. so where not safe at all.
and IF we manage to survive 3 billion years then we have our own sun, its at the half of its age, it got about 2.5 3 billion years to go. so we better make sure where out of here then.
[addsig]



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 Re: Religion & Tsunamis
Posted by Nickelplate on Wed Jan 5th at 4:25pm 2005

Orph- How are tax dollars going to build churches?
AND they don't have to pay taxes because they are NON-PROFIT organizations that work off of donations. We have "separation of church and state" which LOTS of ppl keep getting hung up on. they want the 10 commandments out of a courthouse, but they don't mind the churches helping to pay for the country's expenses. If the government does not support the churches why do they have to support the government? If we are going to be sticklers for "separation" then we have to let it go both ways.

And, what is your problem with BIIGGG churches? We've had those for a LONG time.

(by the way, I'm writing this in a non-angry/non-defensive tone, just asking some questions and making some points.

PS, to PEPPER, When the water explodes in a volcano it's called a "phreatic Explosion"

[addsig]




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