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Games are TOO EASY
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 Re: Games are TOO EASY
Posted by Pvt.Scythe on Sat Jan 8th at 8:51am 2005

? quoting Cassius
HL2, quite frankly, was a breeze. I only got stuck a few times when I couldn't figure out which direction to go in.

Same here, except that I didn't get stuck at all. The puzzles in HL2 are a bit too obvious. But that's the way it goes. Some people get better at playing over time, but the games are made for average gamers so that there would be no fustration on the end of the paying customer. It's sad... I got more fun out of HL1 than HL2.

[addsig]



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 Re: Games are TOO EASY
Posted by Crono on Sat Jan 8th at 8:54am 2005

? quote:
HL2, quite frankly, was a breeze. I only got stuck a few times when I couldn't figure out which direction to go in.


Same here. But, HL1 took about the same amount of effort.
[addsig]



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 Re: Games are TOO EASY
Posted by Dark|Killer on Sat Jan 8th at 9:51am 2005

to me., HL1 was nice to me in the old times, now new gfx and new stuff came along...so hl2 and other games are MUCH better than HL1, thats my opinion... [addsig]



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 Re: Games are TOO EASY
Posted by Andrei on Sat Jan 8th at 10:35am 2005

Well, I played HL2 for the first (and only) time on medium, and it was REALLY easy. AND the final level was easier than "Follow Freeman" (annoying squad). HL1 was much harder; generally. [addsig]



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 Re: Games are TOO EASY
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Jan 8th at 10:57am 2005

my biggest gripe is the lack of re-playability. in its day civilization 2 was my whole world. i played it nearly 3 years straight.. over and over again.

HL1, i played 1/2 way, lost interest.
hl2, *looks at floor* i'm at beginning.. lost interest.
doom 3 played it once.
duke nukem, played it like 10 times.

anywho's, the point is, nothing i like, has re-playability anymore. to me, games are like bic lighters, use them once, or till the flint runs out and throw them away.

i had big hopes for fallout 3 but it seems i won't get that one, so my last holdout is either civ 4 or EE2.

i guess upon reflection, i only play TBS,RTS and RPG's more than once anymore..

wow, didn't think of that till now. :/

[addsig]



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 Re: Games are TOO EASY
Posted by Myrk- on Sat Jan 8th at 11:21am 2005

I think you've got to the stage where you have to realise that you play games too much. Try thinking about how you can use your super skills to your advantage- perhaps a professional beta tester for a games company, or maybe go on some crappy TV show to show your l337ness [addsig]



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 Re: Games are TOO EASY
Posted by Forceflow on Sat Jan 8th at 11:43am 2005

It's quite impossible to do, but I think using the "difficulty" slider should not only boost the intelligence of your enemies, but also the difficulty of the puzzles, and perhaps some parts in the level (more use of long jumps, ....)

That would nearly mean developing three different levels, but it would be worth it.

I finished HL2 in about 18 hours, which is rather short for such an anticipated game. I never got stuck, because everything was so bloody obvious.

Force field ? Let's find a barrel to hit the power plug. All the puzzles involving physics objects were quite easy.

[addsig]



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 Re: Games are TOO EASY
Posted by Myrk- on Sat Jan 8th at 11:49am 2005

? quoting Forceflow
All the puzzles involving physics objects were quite easy.

Everything evolved around the damn grav gun! If HL2 didn't have it do you really think it would have been a good game? I might make a poll on that. Try playing HL2 without any gravgun.

Now that gun dominates the DM mode, along with the combine SMG, and that seems to be it!

[addsig]



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 Re: Games are TOO EASY
Posted by Crono on Sat Jan 8th at 9:34pm 2005

? quote:
It's quite impossible to do, but I think using the "difficulty" slider should not only boost the intelligence of your enemies, but also the difficulty of the puzzles, and perhaps some parts in the level (more use of long jumps, ....)

That would nearly mean developing three different levels, but it would be worth it.

I finished HL2 in about 18 hours, which is rather short for such an anticipated game. I never got stuck, because everything was so bloody obvious.

Force field ? Let's find a barrel to hit the power plug. All the puzzles involving physics objects were quite easy.



It's possible, but incredibly difficult to achieve and make it good and not annoying.
[addsig]



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 Re: Games are TOO EASY
Posted by Captain P on Sat Jan 8th at 11:22pm 2005

? quote:
One of the things about games that makes them seem simpler is the incredible ease that save features now allow. Remember when beating a level gave you no more than a password you could put in to say you beat it? Or when games made you play the whole way through in one sitting? You had to actually master the game to get through. Now, a rabid quicksaver can just repeat a difficult section indefinitely until getting it perfect or with minimal damage, and then move on to the next area.

Seriously, Quick Save is the antithesis of challenging gameplay.



I agree with that at some point. Those old games didn't have those functions at all but they were... well, just fun to play so you just repeated half of the game days after days after days.
I think it's not just a game-designers issue. It's also that players have changed. Most players these days want it all and want it quick. No redoing long parts, that gets annoying to them. And game-designers want their games to be fun so they'll adapt to that. That's what I think about it.
So, I think it's just a change in gameplay style. Though indeed it could be tweaked quite some in games nowadays.

Few months ago my brother played a Vietcong game. On hard, you had only limited savegames. Very unpleasant at first but it does fit the hard setting fine. It may not suit all players, but I think that's a nice addition to the 'harder enemies, less health 'n stuff' thing.
I've also read that Darktruth, the mod that sadly never made it, wanted to implement a no-quicksave system for the hardest setting. Just auto-save spots. Two types actually: a one-time autosave, and a reusable autosave. They actually used these as rewards sometimes, in secrets for example. Nifty, I liked those idea's.

I also miss those extra thingies in nowadays games. Those secrets that unlocked secret levels, extra stuff and all... it felt so much more rewarding and made replayability much better for me. Plus, it gives the feeling that you're actually smart, finding secrets, and it's exciting to have found a secret level or object that you weren't supposed to find on a normal run.

And about difficulty settings: I find that a harder difficulty must have a greater reward. Darktruth planned to give away more of the story on harder settings, and offer slightly different situations instead of just harder enemies. I would've loved to see that in-game.
HL2 rewarded those that inspected area's closely, there were some hidden information spots and such. That's ok, good to reward those that seek, but I also think it should've rewarded those that went the harder way.
[addsig]



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 Re: Games are TOO EASY
Posted by KungFuSquirrel on Sat Jan 8th at 11:32pm 2005

? quote:
I finished HL2 in about 18 hours, which is rather short for such an
anticipated game. I never got stuck, because everything was so bloody
obvious.


I can't believe you're calling 18 hours short. Hell, I finished it in just over 10 and it was plenty enjoyable over even that span of time. With the exception of the epic RPGs, very rarely do I want a game taking me much beyond 12-15 hours. I'm usually more than happy with 8, provided that 8 is well crafted. [addsig]



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 Re: Games are TOO EASY
Posted by Leperous on Sat Jan 8th at 11:49pm 2005

How many hours of enjoyment will you get from mapping or deathmatching online, on top of those 10/18/whatever hours? More than any other game EVER for many of us, except for HL1





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 Re: Games are TOO EASY
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Jan 8th at 11:53pm 2005

you should be someone like me. games that are hours long, lose interest for me rapidly. i cannot play as long anymore, and with session of 15 to 30 minutes, it becomes cumbersome after a while.

anywho's its not length, its quality. i buy games knowing full well I'll never finish them. i buy them anyways. go figure. :/

[addsig]



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 Re: Games are TOO EASY
Posted by Captain P on Sun Jan 9th at 12:07am 2005

? quote:
anywho's its not length, its quality.


Hey, true words...

You could go as far as to say length should come forth from quality... For a fun game will be played longer than a long boring game, isn't it?
[addsig]



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 Re: Games are TOO EASY
Posted by ReNo on Sun Jan 9th at 3:00am 2005

Play ICO, and realise that time plays no importance compared to quality

Really though, I totally disagree with people saying games are getting shorter. Think back to Streets Or Rage, Sonic, Mario, Street Fighter, Prince of Persia, Another World, etc... - hardly the lengthiest of games any of them. Most could be completed in less than 2 or 3 hours. Any despite this, some people find it necessary to bitch at 18 hours (and if you took that long without getting stuck...something is amiss)? I really don't get it to be honest. I'm normally glad of a game being completeable in as reasonable amount of time, as quite frankly there are so many other games out there that I'm normally happy to be able to move onto something new.
[addsig]



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 Re: Games are TOO EASY
Posted by G.Ballblue on Sun Jan 9th at 6:07pm 2005

Want a game that's rediculously hard? Doom3. I'm on hard difficulty, but don't write me off yet -- I know a game is to hard when I'm standing 4 feet away from a guy, shoot a shotgun at him, and only 1 pellet hits.

Blah. I personally haven't played any new games for quite a while now -- they all become very reduntant in style, and features. The only game I find that is "real easy" is Quake2 The original Quake was more of a challenge!

My thought is, is that you are better off playing an easy game with amazing grandeur, than you are playing a correctly challenging game, with no grandeur at all.

Also, is grandeur even the right word for that sentence?

[addsig]



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 Re: Games are TOO EASY
Posted by KungFuSquirrel on Sun Jan 9th at 6:25pm 2005

Ballblue: shotgun in D3 is crazy effective, but the problem is actually -aiming-. They went a little overboard with the melee kickback when you get hit, so once you get a bunch of guys near you it's basically game over Wish they'd toned that down a bit. [addsig]



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 Re: Games are TOO EASY
Posted by Cassius on Sun Jan 9th at 10:53pm 2005

? quoting Orpheus

anywho's its not length, its quality.

It's not about the size of the boat... it's about the motion in the ocean.





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 Re: Games are TOO EASY
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Jan 9th at 11:23pm 2005

? quoting Cassius

It's not about the size of the boat... it's about the motion in the ocean.

Cass, have i really been that bad an influence on you

i was thinking that as i typed, but no way was i going to hint i was thinking it..

you.. kill me sometimes .

[addsig]



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 Re: Games are TOO EASY
Posted by Vash on Sun Jan 9th at 11:25pm 2005

Play Viewtiful Joe (Gamecube / PS2). It will whoop your ass into submission.
[addsig]




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