Posted by Monqui on Sun Oct 12th at 7:34am 2003
Its basically a proof- each step is listed below. Obviously, the proof doesn't hold true, but I need to know where it falls apart.
When it say X times, it simply means that there are X values in the set. Meaning 1 + 1 + ... + 1 (X Times) Means there are X number of 1's in the equation.
Also, x^2 is my notation for x squared (x*x). In case thats a bit vague and all.
And D(x) means to take the derivative of whatevers in the ()'s.
-------------------------------------------
For x > 0:
x = 1 + 1 + ... + 1 (x times)
x^2 = x + x + ... + x (x times)
D(x^2) = D(x + x + ... + x (x times) )
D(x^2) = D(x) + D(x) + ... + D(x) (x times)
2x = 1 + 1 + ... + 1 (x times)
2x = x
2 = 1
-------------------------------------------
Any ideas? Sorry if this is vague, but I really want to know what is going on here. Especially since the prof. is evil about stuff like this and probably won't tell us the answer.
Thanks in advance. [addsig]
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Posted by Gollum on Sun Oct 12th at 8:44am 2003
The error actually occurs at the beginning:
For x > 0,
x = 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 .... (x times)
That's just not true in general. It's only true for integers (like -5, 0, 1, 10). For example, what does the expression mean if you set x = 0.5? Or even worse, what about x = pi?
Why doesn't the proof work if x is an integer? That would still "prove" that 2 = 1.
The rule,
D(x^2) = 2x
...is not a rule for a particular number x. It is a rule for the function x^2, which is a continuous (and hence differentiable) function.
What the proof is trying to say is something like this:
Hey Monqui, you know that 2x is the derivative of x^2, right? Now that's true at every point x, so in general the derivative of a real number must be twice its square root, and in particular this must be true of an integer.
But that's certainly not true. Let's take k = 16. Then D(k) = 8, right? But now express k as part of the function 2x. D(2x) = 2 for all x, so D(k) = D(8) = 2. But then 2 = 8.
The point is that there is no such thing as the derivative of a number. Only functions have derivatives.
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Posted by Leperous on Sun Oct 12th at 10:00am 2003
Yes, in saying that x^2 = x + x + .. + x it's not continous and you can't differentiate.
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Posted by KoRnFlakes on Sun Oct 12th at 10:19am 2003
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Posted by scary_jeff on Sun Oct 12th at 11:49am 2003
Posted by Monqui on Sun Oct 12th at 3:27pm 2003
When he introduced the problem, he said that the less you know about derivitives the better. He normally gives the assignment out just before spring break so that the students can take the problem to their old teachers from high-school. The normal reaction by them is supposedly "wtf."
Ugh. I feel so stupid now :/ [addsig]
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Posted by DesPlesda on Wed Oct 15th at 9:23pm 2003
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Posted by Gav on Thu Oct 16th at 11:18am 2003
Posted by Gollum on Thu Oct 16th at 11:20am 2003
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Posted by Monqui on Thu Oct 16th at 2:48pm 2003
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Posted by Leperous on Thu Oct 16th at 3:18pm 2003
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Posted by Adam Hawkins on Thu Oct 16th at 3:28pm 2003
You lost me at 'x ='
![]()
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Posted by Monqui on Thu Oct 16th at 3:54pm 2003
*edit*
I need to stop doing Ada... [addsig]
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Posted by DocRock on Thu Oct 16th at 4:01pm 2003
I knew it would be something obvious like that
...

heh, you lost me at Our calculus professor
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