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Post-Submission contest thoughts
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 Re: Post-Submission contest thoughts
Posted by Agent Smith on Sun Jan 16th at 9:49am 2005

I agree totally Orph.

The thing that really got me about this competition was that despite the fact it took Valve 5 years to create HL2, they expect high quality DM maps in only a month, virtually right after the game was released. While many of us got maps completed, or at least near enough, there was very little time for the public testing that is essential to creating a polished piece. After I got my map to the point where it could actually be played, there was no time left to implement the suggested changes/fixes that arose from public testing.

Ultimately it encouraged the creation and "finishing" of maps without actually gaining any input from the community that plays them. I'll admit I've done it before, but my maps that have undergone scrutiny from the community have always turned out far better than anything I've produced solely on my own, without any external input. [addsig]



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 Re: Post-Submission contest thoughts
Posted by Gorbachev on Sun Jan 16th at 9:51am 2005

I stopped working halfway through because not only is it a rough time frame but there was a lot I just didn't know about the capabilities and entities involved. I couldn't implement exactly what I wanted...I knew what it was, but I had such a hard time getting even a stupid ladder to work properly that I decided to work on other projects instead.
[addsig]



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 Re: Post-Submission contest thoughts
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Jan 16th at 12:26pm 2005

? quoting Gorbachev
but there was a lot I just didn't know about the capabilities and entities involved.

EXACTLY!

if this competition was held 1 year from its release, the maps involved would have been many leagues in advance of what we are likely to see in this one.

at least i am betting it would have.

but.. i plan on doing a thorough critique of the chose among this competition.. i believe my perspective of quality mapping rivals theirs and i think i will know if the competition was rigged or not.

if the winner truly won, i will be surprised, if not totally speechless.. :/

[addsig]



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 Re: Post-Submission contest thoughts
Posted by Myrk- on Sun Jan 16th at 12:28pm 2005

The only reason its being done by post is because big fat Gabe messed up everything last time he was too lazy and used email... remember the consequences? [addsig]



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 Re: Post-Submission contest thoughts
Posted by Leperous on Sun Jan 16th at 12:30pm 2005

Depot looks good, but I don't trust maps that need a bit of the old Photoshop magic applied to screenshots



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 Re: Post-Submission contest thoughts
Posted by Myrk- on Sun Jan 16th at 12:35pm 2005

I think it OK to use sharp tool on thumbnails, because they get blurred, but not on actual screenshots unless they are small. On that note- is HL2 capable of render modes? FarCry could do loads, such as cell shading and cartoon and black and white...

[addsig]



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 Re: Post-Submission contest thoughts
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Jan 16th at 12:35pm 2005

? quoting Leperous
Depot looks good, but I don't trust maps that need a bit of the old Photoshop magic applied to screenshots

i may be biased, but i do not trust a map that needs a 450k screen shot to illustrate its goodliness..

or is that what you said too?

[addsig]



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 Re: Post-Submission contest thoughts
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Sun Jan 16th at 3:10pm 2005

If anybody bothered to download and play dm_depot instead of looking only at the screenshots then you'd know that it doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning. If you did download it and thought it had awesome gameplay, then well I guess dm_torque doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning.

I'm going to be sorely disappointed if some good looking map that has a low FPS average, a terrible layout, and zero gameplay wins. Not because I would lose the contest, but because I'd be forced to play it on every single HL2DM server in existence.

[addsig]



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 Re: Post-Submission contest thoughts
Posted by Leperous on Sun Jan 16th at 3:12pm 2005

/bitterness



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 Re: Post-Submission contest thoughts
Posted by ReNo on Sun Jan 16th at 3:35pm 2005

Yak is right though, Depot looks the part but it really is a poor DM map. The flow is quite terrible, with some places forcing you down a huge linear route before getting even one alternative offered to you, and the interiors in particular are extremely cramped - only wide enough for a single person at times.

Resistance on the other hand looks awesome - I saw it on mapcore about a week ago, and on visuals it is certainly up there with the best. I've not played it, but just hope to hell that it plays better than depot.
[addsig]



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 Re: Post-Submission contest thoughts
Posted by Nickelplate on Sun Jan 16th at 4:21pm 2005

Here is how it will be:

A not-so-good map will win the competition. We will all be disappointed. The second- or third-place maps will turn out to be favourites.

/prediction

I didn't even MAKE a submission because i didn't have enough time. grrrrr

[addsig]



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 Re: Post-Submission contest thoughts
Posted by Leperous on Sun Jan 16th at 4:39pm 2005

Well I'm not worrying about it, I'm sure they'll pick a good map- they've got enough decent level designers working for them!





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 Re: Post-Submission contest thoughts
Posted by thursday- on Sun Jan 16th at 5:46pm 2005

? quote:
Here is how it will be:

A not-so-good map will win the competition. We will all be disappointed. The second- or third-place maps will turn out to be favourites.

/prediction

I didn't even MAKE a submission because i didn't have enough time. grrrrr



I agree. I almost never like the winning thing.
[addsig]



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 Re: Post-Submission contest thoughts
Posted by DrGlass on Sun Jan 16th at 5:53pm 2005

With only three people judgeing at least 2,000-3,000 maps I wonder how much time they will take on the map and what they will give the best marks for. I supose they will have the interns filter out the s**t-tastical but how will three people be able to really grasp how well a map will play? I hope they are running some nice hardwear because on my meduim range computer I had some frame rate drops into the high teen's.


All I really hope is that they dont give extra points to the established mappers out there. we will see...

I agree with lep about the good/bad map mix, any one remeber de_torn?




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 Re: Post-Submission contest thoughts
Posted by mike-o on Sun Jan 16th at 5:58pm 2005

Depot won't win. I'm 99% sure of it. Gameplay isn't the best. Sheds are cramped, and the map is like one big line. Also, FPS will be a concern. I think the ravenholm map on the front page has a good chance, along with rebar by ferret.



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 Re: Post-Submission contest thoughts
Posted by Dred_furst on Sun Jan 16th at 6:52pm 2005

? quote:
  • The possibilities with Half-Life 2 mapping are much greater than HL1, but not that much greater! Still be reasonable.


I beg to disagree, I reckon about sohl much greater? I have a feeling a sort of locus system is hiding in there, plus we got AI management! Particle engine! movewith! seamless teleportation! (yes it's there, trigger_teleport takes an info_landmark now) and other cool stuff

My thoughts on the mapping contest is that they are likely to pick a very good map whatever the odds, look at the make something unreal competition. But my estimate of what percentage are crap maps lie around the 80% mark. Remember those mappacks? those have probably been entered.
[addsig]



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 Re: Post-Submission contest thoughts
Posted by mazemaster on Sun Jan 16th at 8:32pm 2005

? quote:
Remember those mappacks? those have probably been
entered.


Oh, the humanity! [addsig]



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 Re: Post-Submission contest thoughts
Posted by Campaignjunkie on Sun Jan 16th at 8:34pm 2005

I don't know, I don't think there's going to be a lot of people who bother to mail their entry out to Valve. Certainly under 100 entries at the most! Even those killbox makers have to have some common sense.
[addsig]



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 Re: Post-Submission contest thoughts
Posted by BlisTer on Sun Jan 16th at 9:23pm 2005

? quoting BlisTer
? quoting Leperous
Care to share a few direct links?

qua visuals, i think Linga's dm_resistance and Robert Briscoe's dm_depot (if he entered) make a good chance

yeah.. i havent got HL2 installed yet, so therefore qua visuals sorry

[addsig]



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 Re: Post-Submission contest thoughts
Posted by Nickelplate on Sun Jan 16th at 9:30pm 2005

? quoting Campaignjunkie
I don't know, I don't think there's going to be a lot of people who bother to mail their entry out to Valve. Certainly under 100 entries at the most! Even those killbox makers have to have some common sense.

precisely why VALVe made ppl mail it instead of an online-system. It's not because they COULDN'T get an online system (remember these are the steam ppl) It's because anyone who puts a "killbox" amount of effort into a map, Is going to put a "killbox" amount of effort into asking his mommy for a stamp and getting a CD mailer somewhere. (AND lifting the flag on the mailbox.) They're just too lazy.

[addsig]




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