Snarkpit Forum Index » General Banter » Half-Life? Random Map Generator
Half-Life? Random Map Generator
1
Post Reply
Quote
 Re: Half-Life? Random Map Generator
Posted by RaPtoR on Tue Jan 25th at 8:00pm 2005

Hi Everyone!

Some years ago i saw a program called "Randmap". It's purpuse was to create random maps to Half-Life one. I thought the idea was realy good and downloaded it, tested it, and I Loved it... and Hated it.
The tought of playing a new map all the time and never ever getting bored of the game gave me a real kick... for the first 2 compiles. I got more and more dissapointed at it, cuz the maps looked realy bad. They lacked everything that could be described as "Detalis", the textures was badly aligned, the mosters where showing up on bad and strange locations, the weapons and ammo where also badly placed (if they where placed at all). The square, ugly, badly lit rooms made me sick.

But even though... i liked the idea!

And that's why i have been working on my application called "Half-Life? Random Map Generator" for about 30 hours. I'll soon be about half-done. I can promise you that the rooms WONT look square, and they'll have lots of details too. The application will use (a limited ammount of) inteligence when compiling the maps so monsters and weapons will be placed well.
And hopefully, it will get done to!

I'm coding it in the very user friendly Visual Basic so you wont have to feed commands it to some sort of DOS console. Lots of options will keep you happy before compiling the map.
I'm also setting up standars for HL?RMG so anybody could make their own rooms (and also their own genre if they wont want them to mix up with the other rooms). Prefabs and point entities will also help the eventual mapper.

What do you think about the idea??


//Sorry for making it look like an AD, it will actualy be a freeware




Quote
 Re: Half-Life? Random Map Generator
Posted by ReNo on Tue Jan 25th at 8:02pm 2005

I can't say I'd use it personally, nor do I think any mappers here really would other than to experiment with it, but its still a nice enough idea and a good project.
[addsig]



Quote
 Re: Half-Life? Random Map Generator
Posted by RaPtoR on Tue Jan 25th at 8:07pm 2005

I agree, it wont be anything serius. But even though, i think it will be quite fun.
[addsig]



Quote
 Re: Half-Life? Random Map Generator
Posted by 7dk2h4md720ih on Tue Jan 25th at 8:08pm 2005

I agree with Reno. I can't see myself using it, but it would be interesting to see how you deal with certain problems. Even a simplistic random single player map generator could be fun for an hour or two.




Quote
 Re: Half-Life? Random Map Generator
Posted by Monqui on Tue Jan 25th at 8:18pm 2005

I worked on something along these lines a few years back, got bored with it after a while. Hope it goes better for you, though [addsig]



Quote
 Re: Half-Life? Random Map Generator
Posted by Nickelplate on Tue Jan 25th at 8:31pm 2005

It sounds nice, but nothing will ever substitute for good old weeks-worth-of-work.

Fun idea. I say go for it. But one thing I recommend is to make sure there is one thing that is ALWAYS in EVERY map: A logo. Make it so that every map that is made with this program has some sort of identifying feature that lets EVERYONe know it was generated. Some n00b will always wanna take credit for these maps, but with this feature we can just really laugh at them.

[addsig]



Quote
 Re: Half-Life? Random Map Generator
Posted by mazemaster on Tue Jan 25th at 8:36pm 2005

Its an interesting problem. One of the biggest problems is where to start - maps can have so many degrees of freedom. You can place brushes anywhere in 3D in any pattern, with any lighting with monsters anywhere, and so on, but yet to a human observer there are tons of very obvious "right" and "wrong" choices. How are you supposed to write a program that algorithmically generates all of that and makes it look reasonable?

I think I may have some insight into the problem though. On my HL2 maps I've been finding myself using a lot of hirearchical vis groups, and as I look over the vis groups I'm thinking "hey, maybe a computer could generate this". I think one way to design a map generator is to take good .vmf's, break them down into visgroups using your personal intuition, and then study why you broke them down the way you did and use that as a basis for your map generator. [addsig]



Quote
 Re: Half-Life? Random Map Generator
Posted by Andrei on Tue Jan 25th at 9:11pm 2005

Where's the fun in playing a randomly generated map? If i remember well, the olde random map gen practically made huge hollow cubes with some moronicly placed weapons and a some walls for cover . Dunno about you, but i'd rather waste 2 minutes downloading something cool, rather than rushing with a mapgen.


[addsig]



Quote
 Re: Half-Life? Random Map Generator
Posted by Spartan on Tue Jan 25th at 9:43pm 2005

I hate the idea. Eventually they'll make random map generators so good you won't need mappers. Plus all the fun is the time spent making a map. I really don't like the idea of a random map generator. [addsig]



Quote
 Re: Half-Life? Random Map Generator
Posted by 7dk2h4md720ih on Tue Jan 25th at 10:05pm 2005

? quote:
Eventually they'll make random map generators so good you won't need mappers.


You'll be long dead by then pal.




Quote
 Re: Half-Life? Random Map Generator
Posted by Foxpup on Tue Jan 25th at 11:17pm 2005

Jumble for DooM 1 is the only good random map generator ever made. If you can make a random map generator as good as that, I'll download it. [addsig]



Quote
 Re: Half-Life? Random Map Generator
Posted by Captain P on Tue Jan 25th at 11:18pm 2005

It takes an enormeous amount of effort, investigation and time to create a map-generator that creates believable maps. Personally, I don't think it's worth it. Good maps have a sort of personal touch, whatever it is, a certain aspect that no generator can achieve. So if the goal would be to create good maps in a short time-span, I'd say it's a waste of time as you'll not get there.

However, if you can design this tool as something that aids mappers in an usefull way, let's say by creating a bare-bone layout on wich a mapper can base his or her map, I see more use for the program. It could save time without having the negative aspect of creating monotone, random or 'strange' maps as it's used as a tool in the process. Something like Nem's terrain generator.

And another argument to continue would be to get insight in level-design. You'll surely have to do some investigation into 'what makes a map good'. And it'll teach you a lot about algorithms and generally solving this type of 'problems'. Almost a sort of AI-coding...


So, good luck!
[addsig]



Quote
 Re: Half-Life? Random Map Generator
Posted by xconspirisist on Tue Jan 25th at 11:20pm 2005

I am a frontend coder for a map generator for hl1. Love them, they're not meant for serious maps, a computer cant think, or be inspired, yet. But for making kill boxes with a few bored 30 minutes, go for it.




Quote
 Re: Half-Life? Random Map Generator
Posted by rs6 on Tue Jan 25th at 11:37pm 2005

It would be cool to intergrate into a mod, so everytime a new round starts there is a new random map. It would put a twist in the game. [addsig]



Quote
 Re: Half-Life? Random Map Generator
Posted by RaPtoR on Wed Jan 26th at 3:00pm 2005

Thanks for all the thoughts!

rs6: Yes i have been thinking about a random map generator for multiplayer games. That would be realy cool.

Captain P: Thx, i might make something like that in the future.

Foxpup: Never seen Jumble, but i hope i won't disapoint you.

TwoKnifes: I agree As i have mentioned before, mapping requires more of the artistic brain-part than the logic.

Andri: I can promise you that it won't be anything like that. My generator will work in rooms, rather than square hollow spaces.

Mazemaster: Well, the "right and wrong" choises will be made by the room maker. There is not a chance in the world that i could create an application that made its own map completley by itself. Thanks for the tips, ill consider it.

Nickelplate: I agree with you, but even though, it's a plus knowing your map is totaly unique. The Logo idea sounds great! Or some sort of signal so no n00b could take credits for the maps.
[addsig]



Quote
 Re: Half-Life? Random Map Generator
Posted by Andrei on Wed Jan 26th at 3:06pm 2005

Don't make the generator too good though, or we'll have to find a new hobby. Perhaps even get lives *shudders* !
[addsig]




1
Post Reply