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60th Anniversy of The Holocaust
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 Re: 60th Anniversy of The Holocaust
Posted by Mephs on Thu Jan 27th at 12:21pm 2005

Any thoughts on the holocaust? [addsig]



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 Re: 60th Anniversy of The Holocaust
Posted by Vash on Thu Jan 27th at 12:37pm 2005

Your cat is a Nazi!

Other than that, not really.
[addsig]



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 Re: 60th Anniversy of The Holocaust
Posted by Leperous on Thu Jan 27th at 12:45pm 2005

Way to go to look intelligent by posting a topic about this and then saying only "any thoughts?" I think it was a disgusting thing, and I can't really tell you any more as it was several generations ago and hasn't affected me or anyone I know, nor can I do anything about it.



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 Re: 60th Anniversy of The Holocaust
Posted by Gwil on Thu Jan 27th at 1:04pm 2005

My feelings pretty much mirror Leps - the only thing I would say with one toe in the pool of controversy, is that the fate of so many Jewish people has clouded the suffering of the mentally ill, gypsies, slavs, POWs, non whites etc..

I know it is a great tragedy, but some camps blow the trumpet of suffering as solely a Jewish thing, which is quite sad for the other groups persecuted and murdered by the Nazis.

Dunno if anyone watched the "Nazis and The Final Solution" program on BBC2 recently, bit misleading in what it said it was going to be about (ie the implication was they were going to investigate the "mechanics", for want of a better term). Some interesting accounts of ghetto leaders (ie Rabbis or senior community figures) sometimes being in cahoots with the fascists and persecuting their own people.

Another account spoke of Wehrmacht guards crying openly at the slave labourers playing their music to pass the time - perhaps an insight into compassion overriden by crazed people at the top.

Very interesting, but very sad all the same. Oh, and one of the former camps had a car factory built on it. That, is truly disgusting TBH.
[addsig]



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 Re: 60th Anniversy of The Holocaust
Posted by Mephs on Thu Jan 27th at 1:22pm 2005

(Lep, I had wanted to start the ball rolling with my own views first, but had to look busy )

While the holocaust happened a long time ago, it still has a great impact on the way the world is today is. I'm sure that all the world leaders will happily spraff on about how such an atrocity must never happen again, and that's what gets me angry.

While our governments no longer use such overt tactics such as genocide, we live in a polarised world of us vs muslims, rather than germany vs jewish. I'm sure that the Nazi party were saying much the same things to their people, as our governments are to us. The only difference in the direction I feel the world is heading, is the supposed moral highground that 9/11 created (ie 'they' started it).

Don't forget that German wasn't a country populated by evil people, and I'm sure that some were convinced by their government that they were doing the right thing too.

Countries are STILL causing such atrocities in the world, and while nothing of the holocaust's scale of mass murder has happened yet, an unthinking us and them attitude could easily make this possible, and similarly 'justified'.

What I'm trying to say is look what happened the last time a whole religion/race was seen as enemies. We're only remembering this today because Nazi Germany did not win, had they have, I'm sure whatever government and media we would have installed would have a different slant on the atrocity.

We haven't learned a thing, it seems... [addsig]



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 Re: 60th Anniversy of The Holocaust
Posted by Orpheus on Thu Jan 27th at 2:18pm 2005

my opinion? it gets way to much publicity. don't get me wrong, it was extremely evil but it didn't effect my lineage at all. what did however was the holocaust of the native american indians. specifically the trail of tears.

i personally think, no one event should shadow any other when it comes to mourning. i feel for this topics descendants, but no more or less than i do for any other event in history.

[edit] what does piss me off however, some inconsiderate asshole made a song about the earth quake/tsunami.. freedom of speech my ass.. this crosses all the lines and should be considered criminal.

[addsig]



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 Re: 60th Anniversy of The Holocaust
Posted by Gwil on Thu Jan 27th at 2:25pm 2005

How do you mean, Orph ? About the tsunami song thing. I thought most of the records made about it were Live Aid style charity things?
[addsig]



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 Re: 60th Anniversy of The Holocaust
Posted by Nickelplate on Thu Jan 27th at 2:28pm 2005

tsunami song? he's just looking for money... assholes...

Instead of mourning for every wrong of the past (except STEAM) why don't we just celebrate life. If every wrong was mourned for, the year would be full of sadness (especially if one event never overshadowed another.) So instead of being all sad about something that happend 60 years ago or even 60 days (unless you or your family was affected) We ought to be celebrating being alive.

PS the holocaust was sad.

[addsig]



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 Re: 60th Anniversy of The Holocaust
Posted by Leperous on Thu Jan 27th at 2:28pm 2005

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/275364p-235692c.html

Anyway, back on topic...





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 Re: 60th Anniversy of The Holocaust
Posted by Orpheus on Thu Jan 27th at 2:30pm 2005

? quoting Gwil
How do you mean, Orph ? About the tsunami song thing. I thought most of the records made about it were Live Aid style charity things?

asked my son, he said go here

personally, i was so disgusted, i walked off and didn't continue listening. i cannot confirm that this is the same song.

[addsig]



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 Re: 60th Anniversy of The Holocaust
Posted by Gwil on Thu Jan 27th at 2:30pm 2005

That's sick, quite simply. And without treading on dangerous ground again, African Americans should know better about attitudes toward race.


[addsig]



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 Re: 60th Anniversy of The Holocaust
Posted by Myrk- on Thu Jan 27th at 2:52pm 2005

Why can't people just let it go? Jeeze, sure it was bad, but digging up old wounds just brings out hurt. Look to the future, not the past. Learn from the past, but don't dwell on it. [addsig]



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 Re: 60th Anniversy of The Holocaust
Posted by DrGlass on Thu Jan 27th at 6:27pm 2005

Over 90% of my family on my fathers side was killed in the holocaust, I think I had one great aunt who was able to escape by way of a potato sack.

I dont hold any feelings that would trump that situation over any other. History seems only to make the same mistakes with diffrent names and places. Native americans is a very good example. We emortilize a man who hated the native americans on our $20 bill (or $10 I dont hav any money). What about the Asian Americans durring WW2?

There will always be a dark side to the world like this. Not always on this scale but it will always happen. I dont find this situation any diffrent than a group of people killing a gay man or a black person. The scale isn't the same, but the evil and the hatered are.

In fact, this history that I have with the holocaust is one of the resons I cant stand racist. I draw no line between the nazis and a 19 year old kid using the 'n' word to speak about another person in a spiteful way.
[addsig]



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 Re: 60th Anniversy of The Holocaust
Posted by Forceflow on Thu Jan 27th at 8:51pm 2005

What can I say about it. It's horrible fact human beings were able to do this to other human beings.

The message is: never forget.
[addsig]



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 Re: 60th Anniversy of The Holocaust
Posted by DrGlass on Thu Jan 27th at 9:23pm 2005

? quote:
What can I say about it. It's horrible fact human beings were able to do this to other human beings.

The message is: never forget.


Nothing personll but that is a horrible message. There shouldn't be these anniversy celebrations for things like this. "never forget" is a very empty thing to say. Do people think that a person will commit geniside becuase they forgot about the holocaust?

The message should be, "dont sit on your ass while bad s**t happens you dumb fatty"

The allied nations didn't really do much when Germany started killing off every person they deemed unfit to live. They are all to blame.
[addsig]



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 Re: 60th Anniversy of The Holocaust
Posted by Forceflow on Thu Jan 27th at 10:04pm 2005

? quote:

? quote:
What can I say about it. It's horrible fact human beings were able to do this to other human beings.

The message is: never forget.


Nothing personll but that is a horrible message. There shouldn't be these anniversy celebrations for things like this. "never forget" is a very empty thing to say. Do people think that a person will commit geniside becuase they forgot about the holocaust?


No, but I thought the "never forget" message was there just as a - horrible - reminder to next generations, to not let this happen again.
[addsig]



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 Re: 60th Anniversy of The Holocaust
Posted by Orpheus on Thu Jan 27th at 10:11pm 2005

? quoting Gwil
African Americans

THIS is another thing i hate.

there are two kinds of Americans. "Native Americans" and "Americans"

everyone who arrived after we took the country from the Indians are just plain old Americans.

there should be no such thing as African Americans,Japanese Americans, or any other ethnic branding distinctions. If people do not have enough pride in themselves to be just Americans, then perhaps they should return to their countries of origin.

I do not have a single racist bone in my entire body, but when people want to set themselves apart with racial branding such as this, then they are the problem that needs solved.

The only people whom have any right to a distinctive class is the Indians. They were here first. we are the interlopers. :/

[addsig]



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 Re: 60th Anniversy of The Holocaust
Posted by Andrei on Thu Jan 27th at 10:38pm 2005

"I am not a racist, I hate everyone , irrelevant of other issues." - Paster Richards, Vice City
And the people from the x-communist block know best how it is to be taken to a gulag because youre an american, an intelectual or a liberal. And we've been both Nazis and Communists (and most would have preferred the nazis than the communists)!
[addsig]



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 Re: 60th Anniversy of The Holocaust
Posted by DrGlass on Thu Jan 27th at 11:25pm 2005

? quote:
? quoting Gwil
African Americans

THIS is another thing i hate.

there are two kinds of Americans. "Native Americans" and "Americans"

everyone who arrived after we took the country from the Indians are just plain old Americans.

there should be no such thing as African Americans,Japanese Americans, or any other ethnic branding distinctions. If people do not have enough pride in themselves to be just Americans, then perhaps they should return to their countries of origin.

I do not have a single racist bone in my entire body, but when people want to set themselves apart with racial branding such as this, then they are the problem that needs solved.

The only people whom have any right to a distinctive class is the Indians. They were here first. we are the interlopers. :/



I agree. But not really becuase it is a pride issue.

If some one lives in america, but dosn't want to forget where they came from by giveing themself a title like African American. I think that is fine. But when the government and its people seperate everyone into classes based on country of origin or any other personal foctor (sex, race, religion, etc) then we arn't moving forward. Growing up we are shown that everyone around us is part of a unique group and this seperates us far more than it unites us.

I have an even bigger problem with the phrase 'African American' unlike other terms like Japanese or Chinese american. African American suggest that you are talking about a person from Africa but in todays world it is a PC term for a black person.

Not all the people from Africa are black and not all blacks are from africa... And africa isn't a country... I think that is a horrible way to generlize. How is it PC? African American is just like saying "That black guy from africa, becuase we all know blacks are from africa"

but, I digress. I think that the over use of titles to seperate and catagorize groups of people (not unlike how the nazis seperated the 'pure' from the 'unpure') isn't helping make our nation/world a better place.
[addsig]



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 Re: 60th Anniversy of The Holocaust
Posted by Leperous on Thu Jan 27th at 11:36pm 2005

? quoting DrGlass
The allied nations didn't really do much when Germany started killing off every person they deemed unfit to live. They are all to blame.

Er, do you know how or why WWII started? How were the Allies meant to know what was going on in these places so early? And even when they found out, what, they're meant to just bomb the crap out of these places with complete disregard to the innocent people inside?

Quite oftens things which seem like someone having a hidden agenda or are being lazy AREN'T because of that- they're simply because you don't have the full picture of a full understanding of the factors!






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