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Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by Bobv on Sat Feb 19th at 4:43am 2005

Hi people!
I havent been mapping for very long but i notice how i look at things differently!

When im playing a video game i feel less like im a part of this huge world, and more like im on a level, and i can tell where the level ends and the 3d skybox begins and that there's nothing beyond it (when i first came out of the lab and saw the combine citadel i thought "omfg this place is HUGE.")

Also, views on life - when i see something perty in life or in pictures (of life ) i might think less "ooooo perty" and more "how can this be reproduced?"





How has mapping changed how you look at games and life?




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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Sat Feb 19th at 4:47am 2005

Welcome to our lives! [addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by G.Ballblue on Sat Feb 19th at 4:50am 2005

My appreciation for video games has dropped considerbly since I learned how to map :/ It kinda stinks knowing how games work!

[addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by omegaslayer on Sat Feb 19th at 5:14am 2005

It hasnt changed my view on life, but yes on video games, since now I understand how they are made. Like the N64 Zelda game, I was looking aroune and I thought, wow this is simple design (square rooms), and MGS2 had complex design.

I actually apply this to when ever I play Doom 3, its a great engine, and has great level design, but I dislike the repeditive the gameplay (no im not thrashing doom). This way I appreciate the time and artistc tallent that went into the game, and not hate the game because of its poor gameplay like soo many people do.
[addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by satchmo on Sat Feb 19th at 5:58am 2005

Knowing how to map makes one appreciate the amount of thought and energy Valve put into its single player maps.

It's inspiring that way. And I guess you can take that inspiration further and extend it to other aspects of life.
[addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by Nickelplate on Sat Feb 19th at 6:07am 2005

Everything I see passes through part of my brain that says, Can thins go in my map, and will it make all the others mappers crap thier pants when they see just how i've done it? [addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by G.Ballblue on Sat Feb 19th at 6:36am 2005

? quoting Nickelplate
Everything I see passes through part of my brain that says, Can thins go in my map, and will it make all the others mappers crap thier pants when they see just how i've done it?

I try to think of it like, "Will they crap their pants when they try to figure out how I got the damn thing to compile?"

[addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by Cassius on Sat Feb 19th at 6:46am 2005

Mapping and texturing have given me a big aesthetic interest in the properties of light, and I study reflections and such when I see them almost automatically now; people have no idea what I'm looking at.





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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by Campaignjunkie on Sat Feb 19th at 7:50am 2005

I think mapping has definitely detracted from games. I'm more prone to notice bugs and sloppy design, among other things. Like I was playing some random PC game that used an LoD system on the props. At one point, a faraway tower turned into a sprite, and my friend didn't notice even when I pointed it out. But maybe that's not because of level design actually, and my friend was just stupid.

I've also developed an odd interest in architecture too, probably because of mapping.
[addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by diablobasher on Sat Feb 19th at 8:30am 2005

Omegaslayer, DooM Was awesome and cnahged the world of gaming forever!

Doom3 on the other hand had not only lacking gameplay, contrary to what you said, the level design is actually bad, it repetitive, FAR FAR FAR too dark, the weapon models are very poor, and the only decent looking enemy is the soldier. I mean, just look at doom 3's cacodemon, it farts for gods sake! Doom 3 does not have good level design, and despite what a lot of people might think, it does use a lot of square, or bland rooms, it just overuses Bumbmapping on a grand scale. That and almost none of the original team played any part in making it. The only thing to praise doom 3 for, is its texturing, but Chronicles of riddick has MUCH better textures, lighting and level design, even if it is only 1hour 30 long.

Chronicles of Riddick, escape from butcher bay, has to be one of the best games in a while, the same goes for vampire bloodlines (which uses the source engine) The level design in vampire is not the best ever, but the visuals are stunning, and for Riddick, i hated the film (pitch black was a great film though) but the game was great both visually and gameplay wise, they put so much thought into the level design. Also, mgs2 was not complex, the tanker was amazing, but the rest of the game was poor, lacking in both texture quality, layout design and details. That and the storyline was poo.

As for the actual topic in hand Yes, I think mapping has changed the way i look at games immensely, i will constantly wander around now and look at things, trying to work out how many units its made up of, and try to pick up tips from the proffesionnals, while at the same time ill see multpiple things wrong with some levels. I done really think its changed my outlook on life much though.

Cheers

PS: if your bored, play Chronicles of Riddick, i enjoyed it, and i hate Riddick. It reminded me of the stalone film, Breakout, or Lockup or somerthing similar. Its a good buy if you see it reduced, and dont play the Xbox one, youll miss out on driving a riot guard

[addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Sat Feb 19th at 8:48am 2005

? quoting Cassius
Mapping and texturing have given me a big aesthetic interest in the properties of light, and I study reflections and such when I see them almost automatically now; people have no idea what I'm looking at.

That is pretty much how it is for me as well. I've always been interested in architecture, so nothing changed there, but lighting and specular interactions fascinate me now in a way they never did before. I find myself wanting to light my apartment the way I would a good level.

[addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by DrGlass on Sat Feb 19th at 9:29am 2005

I can stare at objects in the real world forever, looking at how light and shadow effect it. I look at how buildings are held up, what kind of random objects are placed around that area. I dont look at back allys the same way anymore.

This isn't all becuase of mapping though. I am very much into art and I have always looked at simple objects and non spectacular places in a diffrent light. It really gives me a better veiw of the world. There are no more places that are ussless, even empty lots can have something to tell.

As for games... They haven't lost their fun, just their mystery. I know now that once I walk past a point in the game world enemys will spawn. I know if I go up and touch that button it will trigger a wall to open and bad guys to poor out. In maps like de_train for CS I know where people are becuase I know when I hear a sound some one has touched a trigger. Its just like being a young kid and finding out about gravity or friction. I understand the 'world' I am now in. Like in HL2 when barny tells you to make a run for it I know that I can stand in there for another 15 minutes and nothing will happen, no people will bust in through the door. Not untill I cross that invisible brush.
[addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by thursday- on Sat Feb 19th at 12:14pm 2005

? quote:
My appreciation for video games has dropped considerbly since I learned how to map :/ It kinda stinks knowing how games work!


Whats worse is your appreciation for one way mirrors, once you know how they work.
[addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Feb 19th at 12:36pm 2005

? quoting Campaignjunkie
I'm more prone to notice bugs and sloppy design,

in a nutshell.. this says it all. :/

i was watching my brother-in-law play Halo2 on Xbox.. the levels were blocky monstrosities. i couldn't help but notice that even a first year mapper could have done better.

perhaps i am over-critical, but critiquing maps has made me realize just how well mapping can be when the author applies themselves.

[addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by KingNic on Sat Feb 19th at 2:20pm 2005

? quote:
Doom3 on the other hand had not only lacking gameplay, contrary to what you said, the level design is actually bad, it repetitive, FAR FAR FAR too dark, the weapon models are very poor, and the only decent looking enemy is the soldier. I mean, just look at doom 3's cacodemon, it farts for gods sake! Doom 3 does not have good level design, and despite what a lot of people might think, it does use a lot of square, or bland rooms, it just overuses Bumbmapping on a grand scale. That and almost none of the original team played any part in making it. The only thing to praise doom 3 for, is its texturing, but Chronicles of riddick has MUCH better textures, lighting and level design, even if it is only 1hour 30 long.


Agreed.

The other main thing that hit me was how badly optimised the levels were with regards to lighting. I knew that every single light was dynimic and I'd say about 90% of the lights could have been pre-calculated with no change to the visuals. The only lights which I couldn't have done with static lighting were the rotating emergency lights or some of the lights used in the cutscenes. Even if it wasn't for the lackluster gameplay and lack of tension, I wouldn't have liked Doom III for that fact alone.

Some parts of Half-Life 2 had poor level design but it was mainly because the maps were meant to be realistic - we don't have random trims everywhere with panels falling off and pipes coming out




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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by Andrei on Sat Feb 19th at 3:02pm 2005

For me, ever since I took-up mapping, the magic of games has gone. For example, I didn't see a cool freight-train when playing HL2, but a func_tracktrain and some prop_dynamics attached to it.
[addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by ReNo on Sat Feb 19th at 3:46pm 2005

Without a doubt mapping has changed the way I look at things, as I try and draw inspiration out of things I see around me and so pay attention to things I would never have paid attention to in the past. As for my view on games, I tend to try and suspend disbelief when playing and so put my level design thoughts to the back of my head. In FPS's I tend to be more critical and notice flaws, but in games that aren't as directly related I try not to put much effort into thinking about how things are done and instead just enjoy playing it. I do like knowing how games work though, which isn't so much to do with my level design experience but my limited programming experience. It bugged me for many years when I was younger
[addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by Nickelplate on Sat Feb 19th at 8:18pm 2005

people say that "the magic has gone out of games" yet i disagree. Ever since i have been mapping, I look to the makers of games to give me a challenge to rise to. When i see a level with complex entities and awesome brushwork, I try to think of how i can be better than that in my next map. I notice map flaws, but it doesnt make it any less enjoyable for me, I just make sure i do not make the same ones! [addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by willow on Sat Feb 19th at 8:27pm 2005

Hmm, let's see, I agree with tons of points in this post, however, I really disagree with the subject of "Magic is Gone out of Games". Now when I play games, I look at the levels, and check out how stuff is made, some of the time it's the most simple architecture ever, but thanks to the texture work and lighting they have done, the level looks amazing. Or other times I'll look at how complex something is, yet it looks like trash.

As for how it's carried over to real life is, I like to feel that my ability at judging distances, heights, and so forth has increased since I started mapping, also, I feel my skill in solving problems involving laying stuff out or looking at an open space and visualizing what and how stuff can fit in it, has increased a thousand fold.

Mapping is definately one of my favorite things I have picked up, and will continue to grow with it.




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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by omegaslayer on Sat Feb 19th at 8:38pm 2005

I really don't care what people say about doom's level design, it was good, although repeditive. But big deal, you try creating concept levels for a world that doensn't exist yet. As for the lighting, yes it was dark, but that was meant to scare you, give you the feeling that you were screwed the whole time. And I agree that the weapons were lame looking. But I can still appreciate the time and design that went into doom 3 after knowing how everything is constructed.

If anyone wants good level design go here:
http://www.ausgamers.com/files/details/html/15419
This single player had great design. But the AI was lacking (monsters getting stuck). Still it was great to play because of how everything flowed together nicely
[addsig]




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