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Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by satchmo on Tue Feb 22nd at 2:10am 2005

But perhaps the wonder is lost not because we are mappers, we're just more mature. [addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by Nickelplate on Tue Feb 22nd at 2:16am 2005

It just made me realize how f**king CHEAP-shot it was to CONSTANLY spawn Imps behind me in doom3 [addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by satchmo on Tue Feb 22nd at 2:36am 2005

Yeah, having NPC spawn behind the player (where just a moment ago, there was nothing, and there is no possible way for the NPC to get there realistically) is just a stupid trick. It's unfair, and I never do it in my single player maps. [addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by Bobv on Tue Feb 22nd at 3:29am 2005

? quote:
But perhaps the wonder is lost not because we are mappers, we're just more mature.


overall mappers seem to be more mature then just plain gamers... just look at this forum and compare it to any other forum out there




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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by satchmo on Tue Feb 22nd at 3:33am 2005

Not necessarily. Mapping does require a lot more intellectual prowess than just gaming, that's why I am always impressed when I encounter a sub-teen mapper (I've seen a ten-year-old mapper before).

But just look around in the forums at TWHL. There are certainly no dearth of immature mappers. Maturity is not a prerequisite for mapping, unfortunately.

[addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Feb 22nd at 3:38am 2005

? quoting Bobv

overall mappers seem to be more mature then just plain gamers... just look at this forum and compare it to any other forum out there

true, and not.. a forum is as mature as its governing body, not its members. there are some very childish mappers out there.

snarkpit has a ruling force thats for the most part quite mature and laid back in doing it. rarely is a police action needed. but say GA, a part of their governing body is made up of quite immature people, and it reflects in their forum. truth be told however, the GA forums is not an integral part of the site as it is here, so its not a fair comparison to draw upon.

anyways, its the people in charge whom determine "mature"

i can also say, snarkpit wasn't always as it is today. a lot of work went into it, from everyone... from new members to the top.

[addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by Gorbachev on Tue Feb 22nd at 6:59am 2005

I like pointing out all the little tricks that mappers use or have used in a lot of games to my friends and/or girlfriend. While for the most part it detracts from a lot of games, I also find some real gems that someone took time to make or work on. I also have a much different view of the world in terms of geometry, I have to remind myself that in the real world stuff can be at odd angles with no performance hit on the outer laying areas.
[addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by Andrei on Tue Feb 22nd at 8:36am 2005

Lol, i'm thinking of adding an areaportal to my frontdoor so I wouldn't lag so much when people cross by. :/ I like pointing-out things in games too, but it usually gets people mad when I do so, so I seldom do it anymore.

BTW, has anyone noticed how ugly the lighting is in most custom maps currently being played online? Most either have bright-yellow/black/white lighting or are very very very dark (100x darker than lockdown) . My mappey-sense is tingling when I play such a map .
[addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Feb 22nd at 11:16am 2005

? quoting Gorbachev
I have to remind myself that in the real world stuff can be at odd angles with no performance hit on the outer laying areas.

apparently, you have not seen some of the modern abstract art. it hurts to even look at it

[addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by Myrk- on Tue Feb 22nd at 11:34am 2005

Lol always makes me laugh when people (mainly magazines) talk about characters in game with "AI"... Fewls, SS is the word [addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by Hugh on Tue Feb 22nd at 11:38am 2005

Mapping has never really made gaming any less fun/scary/whatever for me. About the only thing it has changed is that it's made me notice errors more, but even those I don't care about (too much) since I've probably made 'em too.

[addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by fraggard on Tue Feb 22nd at 11:39am 2005

? quote:
Lol always makes me laugh when people (mainly magazines) talk about characters in game with "AI"... Fewls, SS is the word


SS? Scripted Sequences? I doubt that's what the magazines are talking about. Most NPCs in most games do have basic AI. It's not a scripted sequence when a bunch of grunts deliberately stalk and surround you, that's the game's AI handler in action.

(Unless you want self-aware NPCs. Those guys will try to prevent you from shutting down the PC and attempt to take over the world after killing all the humans )




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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Feb 22nd at 11:43am 2005

now perhaps i was the only one who noticed, perhaps not but, if you played unreal with bots alone the damned things seemed to learn your style and eventually give you a decent run for your money while fragging. for instance, if you camped and killed them off, eventually they would begin looking in that spot for you to hide in it and kill you as you approached it. i saw many instances where the AI of unreal learned your habits, or seemed to. :/ [addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by Myrk- on Tue Feb 22nd at 12:04pm 2005

I think that "AI" is a mid complex string of equations set by how much you crouch, jump, shoot, and your quadrant in the map in the X,Y,Z coordinate. Often games can be very devious in how they make you think it is AI.

For instance, as Fraggard said with grunts surrounding you- it is merely a bot that is told to do a circle manouvre, triggered by a long series of "Scripted sequence" like happenings. If you perform a certain action in a certain situation, just like SS, then the grunt bots will be told to perfom the SS and circle around you. It really isn't that amazing when you think about it.

[addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by Andrei on Tue Feb 22nd at 3:10pm 2005

I can imangine reviewers praising the way that grunt opens a hatch and tosses a satchel in the pipe you're crawling through ("Surface Tension", Half-life).
[addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by fraggard on Tue Feb 22nd at 3:20pm 2005

? quote:
I think that "AI" is a mid complex string of equations set by how much you crouch, jump, shoot, and your quadrant in the map in the X,Y,Z coordinate. Often games can be very devious in how they make you think it is AI.

For instance, as Fraggard said with grunts surrounding you- it is merely a bot that is told to do a circle manouvre, triggered by a long series of "Scripted sequence" like happenings. If you perform a certain action in a certain situation, just like SS, then the grunt bots will be told to perfom the SS and circle around you. It really isn't that amazing when you think about it.



Actually, if you think about it some more, it becomes a bit tougher. Let's say a grunt has two choices, he can go to higher ground and get a clear line-of-sight shot at you, but his distance from you increases. Or he can stay where he is and have a 75% chance of hitting you, but if he does hit you, you die. Instantly. Which should the NPC choose? It's those choices between "scripted sequences" that makes AI seem real.

My AI coding knowledge is zero, but current FPSs use all sorts of techniques: Finite State machines, Genetic Algorithms, Neural networks, Fuzzy Logic, Evolutionary Programming, and whatnot. I don't even understand what they mean but I am not going to write them off as "simple"




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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by Bobv on Tue Feb 22nd at 3:54pm 2005

? quote:
(I've seen a ten-year-old mapper before).


I'm 15 :/ but im only a noob mapper




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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by satchmo on Tue Feb 22nd at 5:09pm 2005

Even though mappers are not generally more mature, we as a group definitely have higher intelligence than the average gamers. It's not easy to map, and it requires even more planning and creativity to come up with a fun single player map.

In fact, I believe mapping could be incorporated into school curriculum, especially for mathematics and geometry. But the skills for mapping and game design could easily be taught as part of physics, art, music, and computer science (for the coding part).

Wouldn't it be nice to have a school that teaches all the courses through mapping? I would love to do my homework that way. And the final project is to make a big mod with the entire class, with each person applying his or hers expertise into the mod. You get graded on gameplay and artistic design.

[addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by Myrk- on Tue Feb 22nd at 5:12pm 2005

Its called a degree in architecture... its what I do. But we are more realistic, often alot of the maps for HL2 and games are more theoretical and are unlikely to be habitable. [addsig]



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 Re: Mapping changing your views on life and video games?
Posted by $loth on Tue Feb 22nd at 5:18pm 2005

im 16, andfor some reason using onscreen kb..... *gets back to chem revision*
[addsig]




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