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Calling on all Europeans and Britons
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 Re: Calling on all Europeans and Britons
Posted by Cash Car Star on Mon Feb 28th at 9:55am 2005

? quoting Tracer Bullet
? quoting Orpheus
i think you have a point gorby, but i also think that as a 3rd action, inactivity is not an option. by its very definition it defies the reasons.

as for the neutral countries, i wasn't alive in WW2, despite what you all may think about my advanced years. it was my understanding that those countries did not chose to be neutral, they opted for neutrality in favor of getting the s**t beat out of them. i have seen similar instances in cases like muggings. people chose to not act, in favor of not getting shot by the mugger.

may not be a fair representation, but it is accurate enough.

i do not think inaction is reason enough. sorry.

no offense intended of course.

This may have been true for some countries, but I think Switzerland truly was neutral out of principal rather than fear. The Swiss used to export the most feared mercenary armies in the world, until they were banned from doing so by international treaty. I think the Vatican is the only "country" that still employs them. I don't think anyone would want to attack the Swiss if only for purely historical reasons. Plus there is that mandatory military service thing (I think) so every man in the country has military training.

Switzerland doesn't get attacked for one simple reason: You don't attack where you keep your money. In a two-sided conflict, Switzerland found the third option was profit.





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 Re: Calling on all Europeans and Britons
Posted by Agent Smith on Mon Feb 28th at 12:07pm 2005

Not to mention the fact that it is virtually impossible for people to invade Switzerland, since its completely surrounded by almost impenetrable mountains. They worked out that it would be possible to protect all of Switzerland during the war with only a couple hundred soldiers, since the only routes in besides air were through easily defendable mountain passes, that no large army could fit through. It's a bit different now, but the Nazi's weren't have been able to ship in any kind of army by air.
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 Re: Calling on all Europeans and Britons
Posted by $loth on Mon Feb 28th at 12:27pm 2005

Oh, so that's why all they needed were those tiny swiss army knives [addsig]



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 Re: Calling on all Europeans and Britons
Posted by Orpheus on Mon Feb 28th at 1:37pm 2005

two things people need to consider.

1) had Hitler been successfully, he would have backtracked and taken over the supposed neutral countries at his leisure.

2) most Americans feel thats its best to act, and have the act turn out to be wrong, than to turn up dead. at least most Americans i know. no one likes what bush did, but no one i know would have had it any other way. we all keep thinking, had he been right and not acted, we could be dead now.

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 Re: Calling on all Europeans and Britons
Posted by Hugh on Mon Feb 28th at 2:01pm 2005

1) Had Hitler been successful, he wouldn't have needed to take over the neutral countries 'cause I'm sure they'd be paying enough in tribute.

2) I agree, a lot of people have the mentality that it's best to try and fail than to not try at all, myself included (except in regards to myself, because I'm incredibly lazy).

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 Re: Calling on all Europeans and Britons
Posted by fraggard on Mon Feb 28th at 2:22pm 2005

? quote:
as for the neutral countries, i wasn't alive in WW2, despite what you all may think about my advanced years. it was my understanding that those countries did not chose to be neutral, they opted for neutrality in favor of getting the s**t beat out of them. i have seen similar instances in cases like muggings. people chose to not act, in favor of not getting shot by the mugger.

may not be a fair representation, but it is accurate enough.

i do not think inaction is reason enough. sorry.

no offense intended of course.


A lot of british colonies gained their independence around the time of WW2. I think it was at around that time that many of these countries chose neutrality. You might want to look up the "Non-Aligned Movement" which started up around that time.

- It was already the end of the war. The power blocs had already formed. It wasn't neutrality out of fear, it was neutrality because neither alternative was any good. The western bloc countries were filled with severe consumerism, and the corporations were beginning to control everything already. The eastern bloc countries had massive problems with personal liberties and seemed to be destined to break down under their own lethargy. There wasn't a clear right or wrong (to anyone who thought of issues besides material comforts)

- Fear was not an issue. Many countries that started the NAM had spent their years in war, they could easily hold their own despite the nuclear threat from any superpower.

</history>





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 Re: Calling on all Europeans and Britons
Posted by Orpheus on Mon Feb 28th at 3:27pm 2005

i can see this happening in some instances frag, but Europe is made up of a s**tload of fiefdoms, i just cannot see all those puny neutral countries putting up much resistance to the German might. Hitler rolled over Poland in what? 4 days or somesuch? all Poland was was a means to get from where he was to where he needed to be. it wasn't as if Poland had anything he wanted. the same would have been true for all those other tiny lands. once he succeeded un subjugating the real powers, he would have backtracked and took the rest.

anywho's i am not a military historian, nor does anyone in my family. so all i can do is guess what he might have done had things not gone south in the end.

Europe has been war torn for thousands of years, but there had been no one like Hitler in a few hundred, and no one was really prepared to deal with it. also, when there is a long time between really bad wars, people tend to forget how to react. there are damned few Americans alive today who had to deal with WW2, unlike the rest of the world whom most likely has seen a war or two in their lifetimes.

/ tangent

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 Re: Calling on all Europeans and Britons
Posted by Cash Car Star on Tue Mar 1st at 7:04am 2005

? quoting Orpheus
i can see this happening in some instances frag, but Europe is made up of a s**tload of fiefdoms, i just cannot see all those puny neutral countries putting up much resistance to the German might. Hitler rolled over Poland in what? 4 days or somesuch? all Poland was was a means to get from where he was to where he needed to be. it wasn't as if Poland had anything he wanted.

Perhaps as a display of might, but Poland wasn't in the way of anything (unlike say the Netherlands and Belgium). The other side of Poland was Russia, and we all know how well that worked out for him.





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 Re: Calling on all Europeans and Britons
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Mar 1st at 11:37am 2005

? quoting Cash Car Star
? quoting Orpheus
i can see this happening in some instances frag, but Europe is made up of a s**tload of fiefdoms, i just cannot see all those puny neutral countries putting up much resistance to the German might. Hitler rolled over Poland in what? 4 days or somesuch? all Poland was was a means to get from where he was to where he needed to be. it wasn't as if Poland had anything he wanted.

Perhaps as a display of might, but Poland wasn't in the way of anything (unlike say the Netherlands and Belgium). The other side of Poland was Russia, and we all know how well that worked out for him.

we know in hind sight that he couldn't take Russia. he did not. Poland was a piece of turf he needed to put him on the front lines of Russia. in other words "to get him where he wanted, from where he was."

anywho's as i said, i am not a military historian.

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 Re: Calling on all Europeans and Britons
Posted by BlisTer on Tue Mar 1st at 8:58pm 2005

? quoting Tracer Bullet
I am in the early stages of planning a European trip. I'm not sure exactly where or when yet, and everything depends on my saving enough money between now and August/September.

What I would like to know is this: How do I avoid looking like a dumb American tourist (which I am, but never mind)? This includes clothing/behavior/anything. What are the particular stereotypes and common annoyances associated with sight-seeing vermin in your home country? I personally have had nothing but good experiences with Europeans in this country, but then, they generally speak pretty good English. German is the only continental language I speak, and my grasp of it more than a bit tenuous.

your in you 20ies right? if you dont wanna appear as a tourist, the only think you musnt do is the combination backpack+ map in hand. for the rest act exatcly like you do at home, no-one will notice. unless if you open your mouth ofcourse.

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 Re: Calling on all Europeans and Britons
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Wed Mar 2nd at 2:40am 2005

Yup, I'm 22.

I don't think there is any way I'll be able to avoid carrying a backpack, but I'll try to remember to keep my map reading inconspicuous.

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 Re: Calling on all Europeans and Britons
Posted by The Unbound on Fri Mar 4th at 8:21am 2005






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 Re: Calling on all Europeans and Britons
Posted by The Unbound on Fri Mar 4th at 8:34am 2005

In most countries in Europe, especially among young people, you will find that there are not many cultural differences. We listen to the same music, wear the same clothes, watch the same movies?>
>
If you ever come to the Iberian Peninsula and need a place to crash in Portugal, just say something.

Spain is also a very nice country to visit.





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 Re: Calling on all Europeans and Britons
Posted by Kain on Fri Mar 4th at 2:35pm 2005

While you're in Italy, I invite you to make a little jump to Beirut if you wanna discover an amazing country; the tourists usually love it (or they're telling me this just to be nice). However, Beirut is not cheap, but we can get you a place to stay. Oh, and whatever you wear here, you WILL look like a western tourist: you guys look so... pink.




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