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Lack of evolution
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 Re: Lack of evolution
Posted by DrGlass on Thu Mar 10th at 4:59am 2005

I just had some oral surgery as some of you may know. I was thinking about our modern life. In the past I would have died from the infection that comes with the crowding of my jaw bone and my wisdom teeth.

We as humans have evolved to a point where we have no need for these teeth. As our brain has gotten larger our jaw and mouth have become smaller. So to eliminate the wisdome teeth from the gene pool people like me would die out from infection.

But with modern medican we have no need to worry about things like this. 45 minutes and a few days of mild discomfort and I dont have these teeth. This had put a hault on evolution. We aren't removing the bad seads from our species. This isn't a new though, Nazi Germany had simular thoughs. As did pre war USA.

We as humans can only evolve our thoughts and ideas, not our bodies. We are making our selfs weaker. The richer the nation the more we spread these poor genes. Dont get me wrong, I dont think anyone should remove people based on bad genes.

I just think we will be at a stand still untill we as humans posses the power to remake and re-design our genes and DNA. Not untill we can pin point the wisdome tooth and remove it forever will be be able to evolve.

any other thoughts?
[addsig]



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 Re: Lack of evolution
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Thu Mar 10th at 5:08am 2005

You have a fair point, but it isn't entirely true. The fact is, that there is statistically significant negative correlation between most forms of mortality and IQ. You are probably right about the wisdom teeth. There is no selective pressure in that case, but evolution is indeed active, at least with regard to intelligence. Dumb people have more car accidents, die more often in the hospital (they don't ask questions or know what is going on), and are more likely to mis-dose on prescriptions. [addsig]



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 Re: Lack of evolution
Posted by DrGlass on Thu Mar 10th at 6:05am 2005

Dumb people also are less likly to us comdoms or other forms of save sex.
[addsig]



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 Re: Lack of evolution
Posted by Crono on Thu Mar 10th at 6:18am 2005

Maybe you should take third world countries into consideration. [addsig]



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 Re: Lack of evolution
Posted by Gorbachev on Thu Mar 10th at 6:49am 2005

Some people have mouths that can easily fit wisdom teeth, and others can't...I don't see how this is necessarily evolution at least in a positive sense. It's just a different form of person. There is some bird (don't know the name off hand) that has a ton of variations of the exact same core bird, there are multiple "families" with different beaks but they are technically the same bird. I would not correlate this physical different to any real intelligence, it's more a locational and environmental evolution rather than anything that would mean we're getting smarter. Quite the opposite, I think nature is having trouble killing the stupid ones off now that people don't die from what we now see as "routine" so I personally think we're on a decline in societal health.

[edit] I was actually at the dentist today myself, and while it wasn't FOR wisdom teeth...I'm 19 and mine have no come in, if they ever will. I have enough room in my mouth to support them if that does so happen.
[addsig]



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 Re: Lack of evolution
Posted by Finger on Thu Mar 10th at 7:26am 2005

If evolution were a stream, placing a rock in its path will only change the path - not the persistance of the stream. You are right, in a sense. As we empower ourselves with science and knowledge, we are obviously altering the future path of our species. This in itself is evolution. I mean, come on - isn't it obvious that we are evolving toward a state of pure energy. Who the f**k needs wisdom teeth - or skin, for that matter - if you can blast your mind across the galaxy, on a pulse of dark energy. Sheesh, get with the program





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 Re: Lack of evolution
Posted by Cassius on Thu Mar 10th at 8:26am 2005

Evolution is defined by history, not the other way around. In many ways, it fails to define many animal - and certainly most human - relationships.

Here's my thought: technology, thought - any innovation - is our evolution. We, as a species, are a bunch of spindly, two-legged, bare-skinned monkies with no natural weapons. We have only survived and come to dominate the world because our ability to think, to invent, to not merely adapt to the world around us but to force it to adapt to us. The natural selection of apes ceased to apply to us the moment we first arranged stones into a shelter from the wind and rain; since then, we have had a second system of natural selection, one of ideas, pushing always towards creating total shelter from the pains of our impartial reality. Who cares about poor eyesight or wisdom teeth? Were we beasts hunting in the desert, these could very well be issues of grave importance, but we are in a world to which the highest contribution we can give has nothing to do with our physical attributes - just look at Stephen Hawking, Albert Einstein, Aristotle, etc. Who cares if, in some primitive society, they would have died? To me, it's not even worth considering.





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 Re: Lack of evolution
Posted by DrGlass on Thu Mar 10th at 9:11am 2005

I think we are branching in two directions. I think the evolution of thoughs are called meams (something like that) and we are also dealing with our physical evolution.

The two will have to cross paths at one point, and cancle the other out. Phusical evolution cant finish off the evolution of thought becuase we have gone too far with our thoughts, but we have not yet reached a point where our thoughts and ideas can harness our physical evolution.

The point isn't wisdome teeth, its the fact that we are allowing our species to continue to reproduce even with defects that evolution is trying to phase out. We dont have the power to remove these defects ourself. But we can work around them.

Thrid world countries I think will evolve as humans faster than we in first world countries will. I'm sure there is a study out there that shows small tribes in Africa dont have as many defects as people in the west have.

that would be intresting to find out.
[addsig]



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 Re: Lack of evolution
Posted by mazemaster on Thu Mar 10th at 9:33am 2005

If not for modern medicine I would be dead as well. Thats probably the case for half the people here. I certainly agree that modern medicine is preventing genetic diseases from being weeded out from the population, but who cares as long as we can continue to treat it? [addsig]



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 Re: Lack of evolution
Posted by Leperous on Thu Mar 10th at 10:05am 2005

Given that most people are likely to breed under your proposals, then (edit: dominant) mutations are even more likely to spread their way around human beings and we should evolve faster. It's just the negative bits which aren't being got rid of, which we can try to tackle with medicine.



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 Re: Lack of evolution
Posted by SaintGreg on Thu Mar 10th at 4:27pm 2005

A species evolves as an adaptation to its environment. One species selectively grows certain mutations in order to better its survival, while other species develop mutations to counter that mutation. We are at the top of the food chain, we have no serious natural threats besides disease and ourselves. Medicine can take care of most of the common diseases and defects in human anatomy. So no physical mutation, even if it makes us stronger, will matter for our survival. So all (or many) of these mutations just get absorbed into the gene pool and fade to nothingness.


[addsig]



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 Re: Lack of evolution
Posted by Andrei on Thu Mar 10th at 5:07pm 2005

Strange. My wisdom teeth are growing quite nicely and aren't causing any trouble. Does that mean that i'm not a homo sapiens sapiens?
[addsig]



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 Re: Lack of evolution
Posted by Cassius on Thu Mar 10th at 5:24pm 2005

Andrei is the Ubermensch.



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 Re: Lack of evolution
Posted by fishy on Thu Mar 10th at 5:28pm 2005

toothrot is evolution [addsig]



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 Re: Lack of evolution
Posted by Leperous on Thu Mar 10th at 6:01pm 2005

A lot of people don't have problems with their wisdom teeth; mine are fine and rarely cause pain, though they are slightly pushing my molars forward a bit.



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 Re: Lack of evolution
Posted by fraggard on Thu Mar 10th at 6:06pm 2005

? quote:
A lot of people don't have problems with their wisdom teeth; mine are fine and rarely cause pain, though they are slightly pushing my molars forward a bit.


... and popped out a couple of your front teeth




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 Re: Lack of evolution
Posted by Nickelplate on Thu Mar 10th at 6:09pm 2005

DrGlass- this is what i've been trying to TELL everyone!!! But it's not only modern medicine that's causing it. It's a whole array of different things that are found in our society.

  • We have the modern medicine curing those that would have normally died.
  • we have the poor eyesight that would normally prevent us from seeing predators and throwing spears correctly that is being corrected with surgery and lenses.
  • We have the general additude that we need to accept people the way they are.
  • genetically inferior people continue to breed.
  • genetically inferior ppl often surive against the odds because of technology.
  • People have WAY lower standards on who they shag because of mind-altering substances
  • Gen. Inf. ppl are less likely to be informed of proper safe sex techniques

We will also notice on what may be a more humorous note (but it's not meant to be), that you rarely ever hear of a drunk driver being killed. all i ever hear about is that the drunk driver survived and teh person he hit did not. It seems that getting drunk and driving is very stupid and quite possibly the effect of inferior genes.

[addsig]



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 Re: Lack of evolution
Posted by fraggard on Thu Mar 10th at 6:17pm 2005

>>We have the modern medicine curing those that would have normally died.
Stephen Hawking

>>we have the poor eyesight that would normally prevent us from seeing predators and throwing spears correctly
Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles

>>We have the general additude that we need to accept people the way they are
Martin Luther King Jr

>>genetically inferior people continue to breed.
Define genetically inferior.

>>genetically inferior ppl often surive against the odds because of technology.
Define genetically inferior.

>>People have WAY lower standards on who they shag because of mind-altering substances
How is this relevant? (How is it bad in any way? )

>>Gen. Inf. ppl are less likely to be informed of proper safe sex techniques
Makes no sense whatsoever. Random Conjecture.




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 Re: Lack of evolution
Posted by Nickelplate on Thu Mar 10th at 6:39pm 2005

genetically inferior means that they are inferior in some way... genetically... like predisposition to cancer or poor eyesight.

sure ray charles was great, but he prolly would not have mated back in the day.

MLK jr didn't have anything to do with this

and yes stephen hawking is f**kin amazing, but thinking about black holes really doesnt help me any, nor does it help anyone else eveolve or survive until we gotta use black holes somehow to run away ffrom planetary annihilation.

and about the low standards, the ugly and stupid tards that would normally not get any are getting laid because some chick is on ecstasy.

[addsig]



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 Re: Lack of evolution
Posted by Rof on Thu Mar 10th at 7:06pm 2005

It doesn't really matter. Evolution only works towards the local maxima, not towards some glorious perfect creature in the future. Technology has shifted what it means to be "fit" for humans. Now that means we're poorly adapted for life after some hypothetical catastrophy than means we have to go back to hunting animals and chucking spears to survive; but evolution can't predict that, and it may never happen anyway.

Plus, there's still plenty of people around who could survive by hunting animals etc. (and that sort of lifestyle couldn't sustain a large population anyway, so large chunk of people would die-off whatever their ability).

[addsig]




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