To cheat, or not to cheat, now thats a great question.
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Re: To cheat, or not to cheat, now thats a great question.
Posted by Dr Brasso on Sat Mar 12th at 2:12am 2005


finger, my fineart nemeiente'...you would be one of the last folks around these parts i would wholey disagree with, but you scratched a nerve.....timing notwithstanding, i think personaly, (lets bear in mind im a bit aged) Any type of deviation due to exploitation of a manufacterers oversite versus a rewriting of the cfg or any other program addressing file which might be involved, would be constituted as cheating.....

..its not what the builder wanted.....at least one with integrity....

now...as a learning tool or educational arm.....learning concepts is an excellent educational proponent...

but dont let the teachers of technique teach the broils of integrity....

btw .....imho, integrity is learned at home, im convinced of this....

Doc B.....





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Re: To cheat, or not to cheat, now thats a great question.
Posted by Finger on Sat Mar 12th at 2:31am 2005


And this is why the argument will last as long as the game is flexible enough to support any tweaking.

My comment wasnt really a report on game ethics, more my viewpoint on what is technically 'cheating'. When I play, I play by the rules I feel are fair and ethical. From my perspective; binding a key to switch to a single weapon is allowable, and acceptable. So is setting options in the config file to get better framerate and performance. If others differ with this opinion, I respect that - I understand that there are obviously a group of people who feel that outright hacking is acceptable - otherwise they wouldn't do it. In the end, you draw the line you choose to stand behind, and have every right to disagree with people who draw different lines.

I have played hardcore dm for a few years, with people who feel that making changes to a config file is no problem, whereas 'scripting' is frowned upon, but not outright banned. This is the line I draw.

Now, the ethics of subtle ingame etiquette - whatever; I don't care if I'm spawn mined.





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Re: To cheat, or not to cheat, now thats a great question.
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Mar 12th at 2:49am 2005


i use a 5 button mouse, i would not consider that cheating per say, but i have more buttons to assign than most.

course, looking at my scores, you wouldn't think i have been fragging off/on for over 7 years.

[addsig]




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Re: To cheat, or not to cheat, now thats a great question.
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Sat Mar 12th at 3:12am 2005


My opinion: Anything that can be done within the bounds of the software as designed by the developer is fair game. If I stand still typing I expect to be killed, and will not hesitate to kill others. Likewise, if you put the time and effort into finding out where the spawn points are, go ahead and mine them. Trip mines are pretty useless otherwise. I view protection of spawn points as the mappers job and expect that if it is easy to put mines on them, that was the intent of the mapper.

Cheating includes any third party program, script, or other device that gives you an advantage by altering the basic rules of the game. Glitch exploits are included here because they also alter the intended rules of the game.

Hardware such as special mice do not fall under the category of cheating. They do not alter the nature of the game. Otherwise I could rightly bitch that everyone with a better computer than me was "cheating" by getting better than 20fps.

[addsig]



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Re: To cheat, or not to cheat, now thats a great question.
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Mar 12th at 3:50am 2005


well, I'm not about to go around the server hollering "cheater" just because someone is doing the things i would not, but... i also would not hang around for long either.

if i noticed friends doing it.. i would prolly just log out and wait till another time. server frag times, are not worth endangering friendships.. especially online friendships, they are so fragile. :/

[addsig]




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Re: To cheat, or not to cheat, now thats a great question.
Posted by ReNo on Sat Mar 12th at 3:59am 2005


What exactly is the crouch exploit? I've played CS for a while now and its now instinct to crouch and shoot, and I often find myself doing it in HL2DM if the situation is appropriate (eg. running into somebody at a thin doorway). Is that alone what this "exploit" is, or is the exploit doing something like quickly toggling between crouching and standing?
[addsig]




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Re: To cheat, or not to cheat, now thats a great question.
Posted by Finger on Sat Mar 12th at 4:19am 2005


I don't know exactly what is happening with the crouch exploit, but basically - crouching somehow bungles upperbody hitboxes, making your target much smaller. This is easy to combat if you are aware of it - just shoot at the feet. It's a little thing, but enough of an advantage to win a very close battle - Ive had many fights where the other player and I spawned, engaged, and I lost, because he was crouching and I wasnt. We were basically standing there unloading clips into each other .Usually, the person who manages to strafe well and aim for the head wins - not in this case.



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Re: To cheat, or not to cheat, now thats a great question.
Posted by Foxpup on Sat Mar 12th at 7:26am 2005


People typing out messages might as well carry around a huge magnet to attract incoming bullets. Deathmatch is not a chatroom and never was. If you have something important to say, use a microphone.

Spawn camping is not cheating, it's a valid tactic which requires a degree of skill to execute.

Exploiting bugs has been around since deathmatch was first developed way back in 1993. It's not unfair, since everyone is equally able to do it.

My two cents. [addsig]




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Re: To cheat, or not to cheat, now thats a great question.
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Mar 12th at 8:47am 2005


? quoting Foxpup
People typing out messages might as well carry around a huge magnet to attract incoming bullets. Deathmatch is not a chatroom and never was. If you have something important to say, use a microphone.

Spawn camping is not cheating, it's a valid tactic which requires a degree of skill to execute.

Exploiting bugs has been around since deathmatch was first developed way back in 1993. It's not unfair, since everyone is equally able to do it.

My two cents.

you know what i see when i read comments like this?

"Get a bigger PC and you can run my maps"

[addsig]




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Re: To cheat, or not to cheat, now thats a great question.
Posted by DrGlass on Sat Mar 12th at 6:00pm 2005


I play, I dont think about how big my hitboxes are or where spawn points are. Death-match is all about running around and mindlessly killing people. CS on the other hand, I get to know the maps know where people hide, etc. But that isn't becuase I reserch the damn game its becuase I have been playing CS for 5 years almost.

I think that if some one uses exploits and cheats they are putting too much winning. In the end its a game and as long as I'm still having fun I dont care what other people do. In CS i play with hackers because I am good enough to beat (in some cases) their hacks. I would never use hacks, even on hackers becuase I wouldn't want them to use hacks on me.

I'll shoot some one who is standing still in a DM becuase I know that I would expect the same thing from everyone else. (If I know they are typing I may look the other way). If some one is using scripts or cheap tactics I will just try harder to win. If they make the game not fun, I will leave and do something else.

I do get upset, and I dont always want to leave. I hate hackers. But in the end its just a game and if some one needs to win so badly that they will hack/cheat/expliot then I think they should get their higher score becuase it must mean alot (too much) to them.
[addsig]




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Re: To cheat, or not to cheat, now thats a great question.
Posted by Andrei on Sat Mar 12th at 9:08pm 2005


I'm not against cheats when you use them in SP (although they ruin the game). However, mp cheats and hacks are a different matter. I remember playing CS:S on de_dust2. I didn't even have time to enter the buy menu when 2 terrorists "beam" out of nowhere in front of me and fill me with AK47 shells.
[addsig]




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Re: To cheat, or not to cheat, now thats a great question.
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Mar 12th at 11:53pm 2005


at the end of the day, i play to have fun not to win. winning would be nice, but i am also a realist, and its pretty unlikely to occur... unless its like last night and i frag ONLY nickelplate

seriously though, if someone, or something makes it not fun (by my count, not anyone else's) i will just go away till the unfun thing is no longer present.

hopefully, in a perfect world, i will find a server with people whom think like me.

so far, the pit server has been a blast. literally.

[addsig]





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