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Education Time.
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 Re: Education Time.
Posted by DrGlass on Wed Jun 15th at 2:22am 2005

Both sides of the fence are bad.

Picking a side, then never considering your side my be wrong doesn't help anything. People today have turned political tendancies into lables. You are with your party or against your party.

Look at the FOX news channle for conservative view point, my personal fav... Bill O'Rylie (sp?) he will not look at subjects from more than one angle and he is mean.

Now look at a Liberal, lets say a arts student (me?) bash Bush, rant about Iraq, and use facts (cold hard facts) that support their ideas... but wait, the too only see the subject from one angle, if Bush does something right they point out his grammer error. Their facts my be cold and hard, but they dont take into account the situation and context.


Extreme or not, picking a side with out acknowlaging the other sides view points makes debate on an issue pointless. That is the main problem with internet debates, people dont want to back down. Rather than say "your point is valid" they will bring of another point to counter that one.

I agree with doc B, go with what you think is right, not what your lable thinks is right. For instance, I dont like Bush, but I dont shoot down everything he does.




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 Re: Education Time.
Posted by Dr Brasso on Wed Jun 15th at 3:45am 2005

man...almost like old times eh?....<img src=" SRC="images/smiles/rofl.gif">

it just occurrred to me that we havent (at least i havent) gotten into this clean and even keeled a conversation with you guys in ages.....damn you HL2....damn you.... :dodgy:

...ive noticed that we all, in our saving graces, have at least similar views of right and wrong, despite age, ethnicity, location, or whatever monaker you care to place.....does a heart good. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

///me goes back to think about things again.....

ive missed this you guys....and ya'll as well... <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">

Doc B...:dodgy:

ps.....anyone heard from gollum lately?





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 Re: Education Time.
Posted by Jinx on Wed Jun 15th at 4:12am 2005

I'm educated enough to stay out of this conversation...?

besides, talking to conservatives is like talking to a brick wall.



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 Re: Education Time.
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Wed Jun 15th at 4:36am 2005

? quoting Jinx
I'm educated enough to stay out of this conversation...?

besides, talking to conservatives is like talking to a brick wall.

Likewise




Some people are like slinkys...

They aren?t really good for anything, but you can't help but laugh when one tumbles down the stairs.



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 Re: Education Time.
Posted by Spartan on Wed Jun 15th at 4:59am 2005

I would consider myself a mix of conservative and liberal, but I tend to sway more towards the republican side of things on some issues. It seems however that the liberals (democrats if you want) are much more extremist nowadays. Since the end of Kennedy's term they have become more extreme. I just think it's dumb for people to believe that one parties has all the answers or that one president is either wrong or right in everything they do. Both sides have their extremists and some of you seam to think that all democrats are alike.

Also Orph you can tell me many reasons why God doesn't exist, but the truth is we can neither prove or disprove God's existance. So this is why I do not try and force people to believe what I believe. I am religious but I also rely alot of things on science. You might think this is a wierd mix but it makes perfect sense.




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 Re: Education Time.
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Jun 15th at 5:18am 2005

? quoting fishy
Orph, i'm looking at the definitions again, and i can only see that a consertative is a bad thing if i make an assumption that it is opposite to the definitions given for liberal.

Methinks thats exactly how I am reading them.. Its like, when you go to church (stop staring, I've been in them) and the guy up front is talking to the crowd, but in your ears all you hear is "Why is he talking to me?"

Perhaps its my self conscience... I do not feel guilty of anything, because as I said, I read TB's post and I am most definitely a mixture of the two social outlooks. I do however feel that the definitions Myrk posted were written by a liberal... The definition was just to cheary and warm for it not to be so. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/sad.gif">





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Education Time.
Posted by pepper on Wed Jun 15th at 8:30am 2005

I assume we are talking about the American politic system, since it looks different then how it is organized in The Netherlands. Do you really have only 2 groups? I do not really know much about this subject, if there can only one party be the governement for 4 years(rigth/wrong?), doesnt that mean they can do anything they like without resistance from the opposition?



RUST Gamedesign
pepper design

The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee.



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 Re: Education Time.
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Jun 15th at 12:10pm 2005

Someday I would like to read the history and/or science behind the liberal outlook. /me wonders why America would allow so destructive a group, to become so powerful. Are they really that shallow?

Take that comment how you will, but every time I see something going wrong, or astray, it seems hinged on some liberal outlook. Understand, I didn't know it was a liberal thing until this thread. I just knew that something was horribly wrong, and didn't know who actually did it till now. If that offends some of you, don't worry. You'll get over it. I have been offended for years now, and only just found out who's to blame. So we can all be offended at once and get it over with.

/me ponders situation more..

later peeps, /me is off to Maryland.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Education Time.
Posted by DrGlass on Wed Jun 15th at 4:21pm 2005

? quote:
Someday I would like to read the history and/or science behind the liberal outlook. /me wonders why America would allow so destructive a group, to become so powerful. Are they really that shallow?


Liberals have very little power as a party, the right controls (correct me if I'm wrong) all three branches of government, including both houses.

liberal groups, on the other hand, tend to have more power. Anti-gun/smoking/baby eating/etc.

I think it is a common thing to belive that your party has the least power. Ask any conservative and they will tell you the media, buissness, hollywood are all controled by liberals who have all the power.

While a liberal will tell you Bush and his gang hold all the aces in the government and have all the power...




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 Re: Education Time.
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Jun 15th at 4:27pm 2005

Course, its only natural to feel that the opposing team holds all the cards but look at it from the definition standpoint of the words. Conservatives like sameness, so in a world thats changing faster than babies diapers, how can anyone believe for a moment that the conservatives hold anything?

I don't really wanna name specifics, because someone here is bound to call me names but I see things every day, that were not there the day before..

I am oh so tired of granting new rights to someone who didn't need them the day before.

It promotes bad habits.. Tis just another example that if you do something wrong long enough, it becomes less wrong., most especially if a s**tload of people are doing it.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Education Time.
Posted by DrGlass on Wed Jun 15th at 4:41pm 2005

The simple definition doesn't speak for our politacal parties anymore. There are few true conservatives, and few librals.

conservatives arn't litarly standing still. They stand for big buisness, personal responsbility, and less social wellfare. They change just as much as anyone.

I also dont understand your last sentance,

? quote:
It promotes bad habits.. Tis just another example that if you do something wrong long enough, it becomes less wrong., most especially if a s**tload of people are doing it.

are you saying that conservatives do wrong so much that it becomes right.




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 Re: Education Time.
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Jun 15th at 4:49pm 2005

I'm saying that many people are now doing wrong things that they wouldn't have done before. Yes, each generation says that, but I am not one of those "Good old days" types.. I never had good old days to be honest, but seriously.. I have to deal with things today, that I didn't before and neary a one of those decisions did I ask to have to..

I am rambling on, mainly because what we are talking about is much bigger than what we are putting into text ATM.. Mainly because I for one have no interest in alienating my friends here in doing so. Friendship transcends the personal belief system... If you are mature enough that is. :/





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Education Time.
Posted by DrGlass on Wed Jun 15th at 11:22pm 2005

? quote:
Friendship transcends the personal belief system... If you are mature enough that is. :/



I agree to a point. As long as those beliefs dont manifest themselves in some kind of violance I dont think anyone has the right to tell you not to think a certain way.




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 Re: Education Time.
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Jun 15th at 11:32pm 2005

? quoting DrGlass



I agree to a point. As long as those beliefs dont manifest themselves in some kind of violance I dont think anyone has the right to tell you not to think a certain way.

In an internet environment, how likely is it that violence of any credible kind will manifest itself?

I have made friends of enemies right here at Snarkpit, I have yet to make an enemy of a friend. (to my knowledge.)





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Education Time.
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Thu Jun 16th at 12:36am 2005

? quoting pepper
I assume we are talking about the American politic system, since it looks different then how it is organized in The Netherlands. Do you really have only 2 groups? I do not really know much about this subject, if there can only one party be the government for 4 years(rigth/wrong?), doesnt that mean they can do anything they like without resistance from the opposition?

Here we go, American politics in a nutshell from a physical scientist...

For about the past century ore maybe a little more, there have been only two major parties, the democrats and the republicans. The democrats are generally liberal and the republicans are generally conservative.

We practice direct democracy, the people elect the president directly rather than through a Parliament. The power of our congress is purely legislative. There are no limits on how long a particular party can dominate any given branch of government, but there are general presidential and congressional elections every four years (or is it two for congress?), and no man can hold the presidency for more than eight.

The opposition always has power for several reasons:

1. It is possible for the congress and the presidency (legislative and executive branches) to be held by opposing parties, as was the case for much of the Clinton presidency.

2. There is always the threat of the next congressional or presidential election looming in the future, so any party in "power" has to tread relatively lightly to avoid alienating moderate voters.

3. Even in a case like we have now where one party controls both the legislative and executive branches of government, there are numerous ways that the opposition can oppose any given piece of legislation, primary among them, the Filibuster.

The short answer is that you are mistaken on both points. The party "in power" cannot do whatever it wants, and there is no legislative limit on how long a given party can remain ascendant.




Some people are like slinkys...

They aren?t really good for anything, but you can't help but laugh when one tumbles down the stairs.



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 Re: Education Time.
Posted by Dr Brasso on Thu Jun 16th at 12:37am 2005

<img src=" SRC="images/smiles/ar15firing.gif"> <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/grenade.gif">....***runs

Doc B...:dodgy:





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 Re: Education Time.
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Thu Jun 16th at 1:01am 2005

? quoting DrGlass

I also dont understand your last sentance,

? quote:
It promotes bad habits.. Tis just another example that if you do something wrong long enough, it becomes less wrong., most especially if a s**tload of people are doing it.


are you saying that conservatives do wrong so much that it becomes right.

What Orph is getting at has a name: Moral Relativism

This is a state of affairs where Right is defined by the environment. In Nazi Germany, it was considered Right to round up the Jews and Roma in order to produce an ethnically pure state. In ancient Sparta (myth or not, it doesn't matter) it was Right to leave babies out on the mountain side overnight so that only those who were strongest would survive. We consider both of these actions to be Wrong because they are alien to our own culture.

Today there is the battle of whether homosexuality is Right or Wrong. By ancient Greek or roman standards, this would be a non-issue. it was completely acceptable. However, for the past fifteen hundred years or so, homosexuality has been nearly universally considered Wrong. The majority defined the reality of morality.

The question is: is there such a thing as an absolute moral standard? Orph I think would say yes, and many others with him. Others would say no, that morality is a construct of society and therefore as fluid as the culture that created it.

I take a slightly different view: Morality defines the society, not the other way around. Morals evolve as a shared concept that makes society work. They are there for our benefit and protection. Monogamy contributes to healthier happier children, chastity saves us from disease, honor allows us to trust each other and work as an effective team... I could go on forever.

Back to homosexuality: Personally, I believe that the taboo against same sex, and human-animal sexual intercourse stems from the biomedical catastrophe that helped to end the Roman empire. Gonorrhea emerged at about this time, and decimated a society that was completely lacking in our version of sexual morality. The same thing is happening in Africa with the AIDS epidemic. The taboo still operates as a way to keep us healthy, however, now that medical knowledge has shed light on the nature of disease, that taboo is weakening as it becomes clear that homosexuality itself is not the cause of disease. The debate continues, and morals evolve.

The caution is that all is not necessarily well. Rome was destroyed in part because it's set of "morals" could not cope with a changing world. The same can be said for many other civilizations. Breaking down barriers just because we can may not be the greatest idea. It seemingly takes a catastrophe to erect them.




Some people are like slinkys...

They aren?t really good for anything, but you can't help but laugh when one tumbles down the stairs.



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 Re: Education Time.
Posted by Orpheus on Thu Jun 16th at 1:10am 2005

Although I deeply appreciate the explanation TB, I wasn't even thinking about homosexuals at the time I posted that.. I know that many of my comments also apply to the group, but at that particular moment I was thinking of my job. I see things every day that are wrong, but many more people are doing it every day.

As I said, I appreciate the words, and yes I agree with them mostly. I just wanted to clear up that I wasn't thinking of Gays. Believe it or not, there are a lot of other wrongs in this world that do not involve homosexuality.. IN SPITE of what the Gay liberals may suggest to the contrary, homosexuality is not as important an issue as they think they are.

For the record however. unless I specifically mention Gays, I am prolly not thinking of them as I type, in spite of my negativity on the subject. I doesn't dominate my time much.

You see, I know some about gays, I know a whole lot about driving. I tend to bitch about driving issues more frequently.. My wife firmly believes I will someday have a coronary because I allow other drivers to rattle me so.

anywho's.. thanx again, it pretty much sums me up.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Education Time.
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Thu Jun 16th at 1:37am 2005

I did pick that particular example because I know it is one you have strong opinions about, but I hadn't meant to imply that that was what you were thinking of at the time of your earlier posts. My bad. I just wanted to make sure Dr.Glass understood where you were coming from. He didn't seem to grasp the concept of relativism the way you do, so I felt the need to explain.


Some people are like slinkys...

They aren?t really good for anything, but you can't help but laugh when one tumbles down the stairs.



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 Re: Education Time.
Posted by Orpheus on Thu Jun 16th at 1:56am 2005

/Me bows.. most humbly.



The best things in life, aren't things.




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