Education Time.
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Re: Education Time.
Posted by Loco on Thu Jun 16th at 9:45am 2005


I very much agree with Doc Glass' point that "conservatives arn't litarly standing still. They stand for big buisness, personal responsbility, and less social wellfare. They change just as much as anyone." The term "conservative" now tends to be associated with certain individual beliefs such as deregulation, low taxes, reform instead of spending large amounts of money, limits on the powers of the EU etc. Interesting how "reform" is a conservative idea... slightly ironic.

One argument that is quite interesting is that Conservative (as in the UK political party) values are an integral part of British politics for the past 70 years, and they are the values that the public want. This has some evidence in the fact that the Labour party became "New Labour" with much more right wing ideas, and one Labour MP, Chris Bryant, recently said in parliament that the government "should be congratulated on taking what was originally a Conservative idea". However, it could be said that this argument is fairly narrow minded.

For anyone vaguely interested in this sort of thing, I wrote a 1000 word rambling article on why all political parties, and especially the Conservative party in the UK, should modernise. You can find it here. Completely unstructured, but I was bored... <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">






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Re: Education Time.
Posted by Cash Car Star on Fri Jun 17th at 3:45am 2005


I haven't read through all of this thread, but here's how I've set it in my mind, and done fairly well. First off, the words aren't true opposites, but politically they are near antonyms.

Conservative: Prefers legislation to set standards of behavior.
Liberal: Prefers people having the choice to do whatever they want.

Republicans tend to be socially conservative, and economically/environmentally liberal.
Democrats tend to be socially liberal, and economically/environmentally conservative.

It's still a little shady as the other meaing of the word conservative is to adhere to long standing traditions. This is not an antonym of liberal, but rather progressive, and implies a judgement of whether the current legislation is moral and/or beneficial.

Some examples:
Socially Conservative: legislating against recreational marijuana use
Socially Liberal: no legislation on recreational marijuana use so long as it involves consenting adults and no dangerous activities (i.e. driving).
Economically Liberal: no legislation against outsourcing
Economically Conservative: legislating a maximum price a landlord can charge for rent
Environmentally Liberal: no legislation regarding a farmer's pesticide use
Environmentally Conservative: a government program that monitors an endangered species' population





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Re: Education Time.
Posted by pepper on Fri Jun 17th at 6:33pm 2005


Thanks tracer bullet.

This means that the people whom vote only have a limited choice, no third party if they dont agree wiht one of the 2. How do you solve this problem?



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The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee.



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Re: Education Time.
Posted by Cash Car Star on Fri Jun 17th at 6:51pm 2005


Within each party, there are many different viewpoints. The true presidential voting happens during the primaries, when each party elects a candidate. This is when the major focus of a party can shift. We'd have a completely different Republican party on our hands now if McCain had won the primary against Bush in 2000.

Also, the two parties aren't set in stone, there are many smaller third parties roaming around. While their presidential candidates are usually ridiculous longshots, every once in a while they produce something fairly strong (Perot, Teddy Roosevelt in 1912) and their presence can definitely be felt at pretty much every level lower than the national. A few states have independant governors and Vermont has an independent senator.





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Re: Education Time.
Posted by satchmo on Fri Jun 17th at 7:13pm 2005


People do pay attention to other parties, because these parties combined have enough supporters to swing the presidential race toward one way or another.

The Green party has been around for a long time now. Its supporters tend to be even more liberal than Democrats, and protecting natural resources ranks high on their list of priorities.

I have friends who primarily vote for the Green party. I vote for Democrats in general, but that doesn't mean I'll rule out voting for a very good and competent Republican president if ones comes along.

I vote for ideologies rather than a specific party. It just turns out that most of the ideologies I endorse are shared by other Democrats.




"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



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Re: Education Time.
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Jun 19th at 4:11pm 2005


I think I may have actually met my first "Liberal" person this last trip.

Sure, you are saying, "Orph you prolly met 1,000's of them already" But I never gave it any thought till this thread TBH.

Occasionally, I give rides home to fellow delivery people who work for the same company I do. If we deliver to the same location, tis usually convenient to do so.

Anywho's, to make a long story short, We talked about numerous things throughout the day, and except for one topic only, he told me flat out "you're wrong" "you're mistaken" or my favorite "You're strange"..

I have never in my life met anyone who actually said those things to me. NOT because I haven't been wrong, but because what we talked about, I was POSITIVE that I was indeed correct.

For instance.. We came out of a restaurant, there was a big painted section that said "NO PARKING" painted on the asphalt. I said to him "I guess if you park ON the words, you can claim you didn't see it" .. He said "Whats the problem? Why is it bothering you?" I said, "Because, you're not supposed to park there, it would not be marked otherwise if you were".. he looks at me funny and said "Did you want to? Were they in your space?" I said "Nope, didn't even occur to me to park there, it said not to" he says, "But, how is it, them parking there bothering you?"

The conversation continued until I actually had to tell him to drop it because he just kept going in circles..

To me, it wasn't an issue of someone parking in the wrong area. It was a symptom of things in general.. The "Its all about ME" syndrome.. The world is becoming more and more about people only concerned with themselves, or WORSE.. If it doesn't directly effect you, mind your own business.

It wasn't a complete loss, we both agreed that racism is evil.. But I actually had to tell him that my riders are only allowed to tell me I am wrong 5 times per ride or they walk... he shut up.

/ rambling.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: Education Time.
Posted by Cassius on Sun Jun 19th at 5:00pm 2005


What a dick. You should have let him walk.

Here's what I think:

image





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Re: Education Time.
Posted by Orpheus on Mon Jun 20th at 1:08am 2005


? quoting Cassius
What a dick. You should have let him walk.

A dick he may be, but... How many here have said the same thing of me? Especially those whom I just met?

Its truly hard to say "He's a dick" and know for certain that they truly deserve the title. Think yourself Master Cass. You used this word on me... More than once. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/sad.gif">

*shrugs*

I am almost sure that some here still think me in such a light, but at least they have some reason now.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: Education Time.
Posted by Dr Brasso on Mon Jun 20th at 4:49am 2005


only one side of the story so far, but it seems to me he wasnt a liberal, he was just a dick....

........or was that mentioned? <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/heee.gif">

Cass was right.....let the f**ker thumb his ass down the road with his package..... <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">

Doc B...:dodgy:





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Re: Education Time.
Posted by Cassius on Mon Jun 20th at 6:41am 2005


? quoting Orpheus
You used this word on me... More than once.

Yeah, but never while riding in your truck.




[Im_invisible] "I would suck a man off, but only for sustenance."



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Re: Education Time.
Posted by SpiKeRs on Mon Jun 20th at 10:51am 2005


Not wanting to generalize but going from my personal experience of people who would consider themselves liberal, when having some discussion over certain issues, they have frequently turned to saying stuff like "you're talking rubbish" and generally getting personal rather than debating the point in a rational manner, if I give a viewpoint different to theirs. Just my personal experience from dealing with them, not implying that they will be all like that




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Re: Education Time.
Posted by Andrei on Mon Jun 20th at 12:10pm 2005


We need a political beliefs poll.






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