Silver Star
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Re: Silver Star
Posted by satchmo on Mon Jun 27th at 4:04am 2005


You probably don't want to be on the same server for Battlefield 2 with this guy.

From the Los Angeles Times:
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CAMP PENDLETON ? Boyish-looking and Midwestern to the core, John Ethan Place loves football games in the fall and traipsing through the woods hunting quail and deer with his dad, a retired school administrator.

Back home in Lake St. Louis, Mo., he's a regular at the nearby Baptist church.

He's also an expert at one of the most difficult aspects of warfare. He's a sniper, able to kill an enemy at 1,000 yards or more with a single shot.

On Friday, the 22-year-old sergeant received the Silver Star, the military's third-highest honor for bravery in combat.

In the battle for Fallouja, Iraq, in April 2004, Place had 32 confirmed kills, from April 11 to April 24, of insurgents who were trying to sneak into position to attack Marines from Echo Company of the 2nd Battalion, 1st Regiment.

Many of the kills came after he maneuvered amid the rubble of the Sunni Triangle city and then waited for hours in a concealed position for just the right moment to pull the trigger. It's likely none of the 32 knew Place had them in his rifle sights.

Maj. Gen. Richard F. Natonski, commander of the 1st Marine Division, said Place has earned a spot among the Marine Corps' top heroes, including the legendary sniper from Vietnam, Gunnery Sgt. Carlos Hathc**k.

To the public, the sniper may be seen as a killer who strikes from ambush. But the troops of Echo Company are certain there are Marines who made it home alive solely because of Place.

"He didn't kill 32 people. He saved numerous lives by protecting our perimeter," said Sgt. Maj. William Skiles. "That's how the Marines look at it."

Natonski said the insurgents were so afraid of Place and other snipers that they pleaded with the U.S. to withdraw them while negotiations were underway. "It's hard to believe that one individual could have had such an impact on our combat operations," Natonski said.

The citation accompanying the Silver Star does not mention the figure 32, and the sniper mission is described in military-ese: "Place's keen observation skills ensured his supported rifle company maintained a lethal, long-range response to enemy attacks."

Navy Lt. Cmdr. Jeff Saville, the battalion chaplain, told Marines and civilians gathered for the award ceremony that although all life is precious "evil must be restrained sometimes by force."

The sniper school here, where Place was an honor student, has a motto taken from the Chinese: "Kill one man, terrorize a thousand." That's the role of the sniper: Keep the enemy off-balance, deny him the opportunity to rest and regroup, destroy his morale and will to continue fighting.

Looking slightly overwhelmed at the praise from Natonski and others, Place sought to deflect the compliments to his instructors at sniper school. "I just had the right training," he said.

At sniper school, Marines are put through a 10-week course in marksmanship, concealment and detection. The attrition rate is high.

Snipers and their spotters work as teams separated from the rest of the battalion. There is no time to ask for orders from higher authority before taking a shot.

"They're independent operators," Skiles said. "If they don't have the maturity, it's suicide for them. That's why the course has to be so severe: so that they can survive in combat."

During the assault on Baghdad in 2003, Place served as a radio operator.

Afterward he decided to attend sniper school. His mother, Lynn Place, an elementary school principal, said the Sunday school at the Baptist church in Wentzville, Mo., prayed for him to make the right decision.

During the Fallouja battle, she and her husband, Richard, heard only sporadically from their son. Even when he contacted the family, he offered few details.

"It's difficult," she said. "You send off your little boy and he comes back a man who has protected everyone."

Place is now a marksmanship instructor assigned to get Marines ready for sniper school.

Unlike other combat forces, snipers see their targets clearly through high-powered scopes and can study them before, during and after firing the fatal shot.

Place mentioned the names of Marines killed in Fallouja and said they were the true heroes.

And he said he would never forget the faces of the enemy he killed to protect his fellow Marines.

"You can make your peace with it," Place said.

"But you think about it every day."



"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



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Re: Silver Star
Posted by Dark_Kilauea on Mon Jun 27th at 4:52am 2005


wow... this guy is awsome. I've always had respect for the people in the military, and this guys attitude shows why.

Until Later...



Dark_Kilauea
DVS Administration
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Re: Silver Star
Posted by Windows 98 on Mon Jun 27th at 6:31am 2005


Thats great for him. i didn't know about this until now.






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Re: Silver Star
Posted by French Toast on Mon Jun 27th at 11:54am 2005


I stopped reading half-way through. It started to become about how awesome Americans were. "sometimes force must be used against evil" "kill one:terrorize a thousand" yadda yadda yadda shut up.




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Re: Silver Star
Posted by Orpheus on Mon Jun 27th at 12:21pm 2005


? quoting French Toast
It started to become about how awesome Americans were.

In some cases, disliking something can cause you to be blinded to the bigger picture.

Has it ever occurred to you guys in Canada that perhaps the reason you dislike America so much is because all, or most of our losers migrate up there?

Think about that a while.

If it makes you feel any better, we get just as tired of ninnies crying about America this, and America that.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: Silver Star
Posted by Adam Hawkins on Mon Jun 27th at 12:22pm 2005


Comes across a bit off to me. This guy was sniping and killing people before they attacked. Surely that technically is murder and not self-defence/preservation.

Go America! And praise the lord while you're at it... <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">




You Got To Get Through What You've Got To Go Through To Get What You Want But You Got To Know What You Want To Get Through What You Got To Go Through



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Re: Silver Star
Posted by Orpheus on Mon Jun 27th at 12:28pm 2005


? quoting Adam Hawkins
Comes across a bit off to me. This guy was sniping and killing people before they attacked. Surely that technically is murder and not self-defence/preservation.

Adam, I take it you've never served in the military or been trained in such have you?

I didn't read anything of the sort when I read that.

*shrugs*





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: Silver Star
Posted by Agent Smith on Mon Jun 27th at 1:08pm 2005


? quote:
Has it ever occurred to you guys in Canada that perhaps the reason you dislike America so much is because all, or most of our losers migrate up there?


It's like I always say, the only people worse than the Americans and the French are the Canadians. They're a combination of the two <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">.

Disclaimer: This is of course a joke based on racial/cultural stereotypes that are not necessarily true. I have both American and Canadian friends, no French ones though (cheese eating surrender monkey's <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/heee.gif">), and do not believe this to be the case, nor do I support these stereotypes



Ham and Jam Contributor
http://www.hamandjam.org

'Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!'



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Re: Silver Star
Posted by Andrei on Mon Jun 27th at 1:53pm 2005


Which reminds me, how come certain people from the states dislike the french? I know many french people and they're very nice. Or is this something like a "latin fraternity" thing (like some morons like to flatter themselves)?



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Re: Silver Star
Posted by fishy on Mon Jun 27th at 2:14pm 2005


when america won WWII, the french weren't grateful enough. and then when they invaded iraq, the french were against it.

there was also a point in time that the french were considered dips**ts because they couldn't end a war against the vietnamese, so america stepped in to do it right. that one seems to have waned a bit though.




i eat paint



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Re: Silver Star
Posted by ReNo on Mon Jun 27th at 3:39pm 2005


The thing that bugs me is how fragmented that whole story is. I appreciate the need to break up big chunks of text into shorter paragraphs, but that is just insane. Not every sentence needs a paragraph of its own.






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Re: Silver Star
Posted by Andrei on Mon Jun 27th at 5:33pm 2005


As for the story, it is my humble opinion that snipers are the battlefield's cowards. I will always have respect for a regular grunt, for airforce pilots, naval officers and even for riot-troops, but I will NEVER respect a sniper.
Do you know what snipers like to do? Here's a little story; it happened in Yugoslavia -- The sniper sits back and shoots a guy in the legs. The guy falls down in pain as blood sprays out of his wound and beggs for the help of his comrades while rolling on the ground screaming. And as his comrades run to his aid, they are shot one by one by the sniper. The survivors retreat and the sniper stalks them, ocasionally firing at the wounded screaming soldier's legs to make him scream louder as to freak the others out .




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Re: Silver Star
Posted by ReNo on Mon Jun 27th at 6:13pm 2005


Jesus Andrei, what is with your generalisations today?! Sure, that sniper was an asshole, but more often than not a sniper is the person on the battlefield most likely to cause clean, quick and painless deaths. Don't condemn everybody in one job just due to one or two people who misuse their postion.






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Re: Silver Star
Posted by satchmo on Mon Jun 27th at 6:24pm 2005


You can't really take sides when it comes to war. The whole idea is ludicrous, so when you try to justify things with the usual standard of logic and morality, things tend to fall apart.

The objective of a battle is to kill enemy combatants when they pose a direct threat to your comrades. It doesn't matter how you do it, as long as the job gets done.

Don't try to make sense of war, because there is no sense when it comes to this topic.




"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



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Re: Silver Star
Posted by Andrei on Mon Jun 27th at 6:45pm 2005


? quote:
Jesus Andrei, what is with your generalisations today?! Sure, that sniper was an asshole, but more often than not a sniper is the person on the battlefield most likely to cause clean, quick and painless deaths. Don't condemn everybody in one job just due to one or two people who misuse their postion.


Then the fact that I grew up next door to that tortured soldier probably means nothing.

And he didn't exactly "misuese" his position; afterall, he did just what he was supposed to do. AND it wasn't just this sniper, this "tactic" seems to be a favorite tactic no matter under which flag you fight. Disgusting.




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Re: Silver Star
Posted by Windows 98 on Mon Jun 27th at 7:59pm 2005


Wait, you live next to a terrorist?






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Re: Silver Star
Posted by pepper on Mon Jun 27th at 8:12pm 2005


Why do you assume that guy was a terrorist?



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The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee.



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Re: Silver Star
Posted by ReNo on Mon Jun 27th at 8:12pm 2005


Well the fact you grew up next door to him means its obviously become a very personal issue, and thats more likely to give you a biased viewpoint. Then again, being around the area of conflict also means you are far more likely to hear of the stories like this than people like myself - so while I might hear of one case of something like this, you are likely to hear if it is becoming commonplace.

I'm sorry if I hit a sore point there, and I sincerely apologise if I did. I guess I just don't like to hear of people hating a group of people for something that only a minority of them are going to be guilty of.






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Re: Silver Star
Posted by Spartan on Mon Jun 27th at 8:14pm 2005


Andrei it sounds like the sniper was some kind of crazy asshole but I can see how sometimes that tactic is used. The military does believe that wounding people is more affective. If you wound someone then their comrades must waste time and effort that could be used towards fighting to help the injured commrade. Injured soldiers are a risk for the group. But like Satchmo said you can't justify sides in a war. However I don't think snipers are pussies. You could say the same about fighter pilots or engineers. None of them are pussies. The real wuss is the guy who moves off to Canada to avoid a draft.




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Re: Silver Star
Posted by pepper on Mon Jun 27th at 8:24pm 2005


The real wuss is those who start a war. They should burn.



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pepper design

The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee.




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