Snarkpit Forum Index » General Banter » HL1 vs HL2
HL1 vs HL2
« previous page 1
2
3 next page »
Post Reply
Quote
 Re: HL1 vs HL2
Posted by Captain P on Sun Jul 10th at 12:16pm 2005

Just as in the HL days...

Then we hated prefabs. Now we hate the overused prop models. Nothing has significantly changed, really. Except for production times maybe. I'm going to create my own materials again and I'm going to learn modelling for HL2 just as I did once for HL. I see it as part of the mapping process.

As for 15 people actively participating in the mapping process, I don't think I've known those times on the Snarkpit. I wasn't such an early member, and I've hesitated for some time to really get involved since I found the Snarkpit to have a sort of 'elite' image.
Anyway. I'd like to see such things happen again. There aren't a lot of active threads in the mapping board these days. What about throwing in my contest map one of these days for critique or a beta-test? Sure, it may push others to improve their submission (or calm them down... ) but hey, maybe it's just fun and it'll help me to improve my skills and release another map.
// Which means I should provide some more help for other maps as well, yeah...



Create-ivity - a game development blog



Quote
 Re: HL1 vs HL2
Posted by thursday- on Sun Jul 10th at 12:26pm 2005

What we really need is a little system of people prepared to critique. Then we have maps randomly selected (from people who have submitted their map to be looked at) say once a week and assigned to that person to critique for a week. Hopefully people (especially newer members) won't get arsey from being critiqued.

I know there is a good bunch of people including myself who will be willing to volunteer.




Quote
 Re: HL1 vs HL2
Posted by Myrk- on Sun Jul 10th at 1:07pm 2005

Orph the problem with the Snarkpit atm is that Lep is far too busy with his personal life- hes actually becoming a teacher in a nearbye school for science for 1 year, plus he does websites for about 10 different people. If I could code PHP I'd gladly take on some of the responsibility, but I can't. Maybe we need someone in addition to Lep to be a full admin of the website, so theres other people that can help deal with these things aswell as Lep. A big problem aswell is that alot of the other admins aren't really around, we need more with Gwil in Prison world... Anyone wanna take up the challenge of coding the site more? You'd need to be advanced in PHP, and trustworthy- I know Scary_Jeff has done alot of this stuff in the past, but I'm not sure if he'd wanna semi run the website.

As for the map participations, I think once we get the Mosiacs back up and running, then the community will pull itself together again. We also need a kinda disclaimer or sticky in the maps forum explaining how we deal with things here.

I just feel that with HL2 the map build time being longer has slowed the community, I thought it was already long enough in HL1, but obviously things will be slowed down a tad.




-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-



Quote
 Re: HL1 vs HL2
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Jul 10th at 1:16pm 2005

? quoting Myrk-
Maybe we need someone in addition to Lep to be a full admin of the website, so theres other people that can help deal with these things aswell as Lep.

No offense Myrk, I know he is your brother and by rights YOU should know him better than we do but... Lep doesn't have the "Sharing" gene..

There are plenty of people here who have not only the know how, but the personality to "assist"

Lep... is Lep. *shrugs*

/nuff said.





The best things in life, aren't things.



Quote
 Re: HL1 vs HL2
Posted by Myrk- on Sun Jul 10th at 1:24pm 2005

Lol, I know what you mean, but in times like these he may be open to the idea. As I said he has to code so many other peoples' websites, but then again Snarkpit is his child hes been caring for... I'd watch it though, social services may take it away :P


-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-



Quote
 Re: HL1 vs HL2
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Jul 10th at 1:35pm 2005

? quoting Myrk-
Lol, I know what you mean,

I meant no disrespect.. I would do anything within my powers if he requested something of myself..

Bottom line though.. Lep had years to recruit/train alternative members for this.. His, mindset created this dilemma.

The coding is beyond me so it precludes my even offering.. Having a heart in the right place doesn't always suffice.

Chances are however.. Since most of the qualified people KNOW LEP.. you may not get any volunteers for the position.

Thankfully.. The site is stable and needs very little attention... Shows exactly how well the job was handled, and thats saying a lot.





The best things in life, aren't things.



Quote
 Re: HL1 vs HL2
Posted by KungFuSquirrel on Sun Jul 10th at 1:51pm 2005

? quote:
I like the oldschool ways, or the HL1 ways, where the whole map
depended on your skill and your skill alone. Nobody else, perhaps only
textures... These days it sucks - some random noob makes a hollow box,
fills it with cool props and people think it is cool. Old days you
would be lolled for this, but now... it really sucks.


A hollow box with props can be cool. Half-Life 2 shipped with sections of levels that were just that. So do most retail games. It's in how you use them. Anyone can toss them into a box, true, but how many people can string them together creatively to make something that really adds to the quality of the scene as a whole? Far fewer.

Most props are stuff you could never do with the editor anyway; that's usually the point of making them (there can be others as well, but I don't know if they really apply to HL2). And, as levels get more and more detailed, it spares you the time of having to make every single railing, pipe, wire, and various other tedious bits (though admittedly I do prefer the Radiant patch mesh system for these as I hate being locked into pre-defined sizes/angles, one disadvantage to using models for pipes/rails/etc.).

As to the question at hand... HL1. While I've admittedly had little time to fiddle with HL2, what time I have spent is full of frustration and annoyance. Valve added some really cool stuff but I don't think they added the tool support to make it as pleasant as it should be. Being able to view your models in wireframe in a grid should be one of the most basic requirements of an editor. :P Oh, and a lot of their props don't line up on an even grid. I almost flipped out and killed something when I noticed that. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">

Of course, I also didn't realize how frustratingly slow the WC/Hammer interface really is until about a year ago. :P So I dunno.


<A HREF="http://www.button-masher.net" TARGET="_blank">www.button-masher.net</A>



Quote
 Re: HL1 vs HL2
Posted by Forceflow on Sun Jul 10th at 3:46pm 2005

Displacement surfaces did it for me. So handy to create terrain now, instead of using the triangle method like in Reno's tutorial. (Good tut nevertheless, Ren !)



:: Forceflow.be :: Nuclear Dawn developer



Quote
 Re: HL1 vs HL2
Posted by Myrk- on Sun Jul 10th at 4:21pm 2005

I'd love it if there was a way to make models or props in hammer, like an entity almost. Make some nice intricate stuff to fit in your level (using a more detailed grid made for modelling but done on the map) then select the objects and just "make model". That would be class :P Texturing them would be a synch too!


-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-



Quote
 Re: HL1 vs HL2
Posted by Natus on Sun Jul 10th at 4:50pm 2005

you can import .vmf to xsi and texture them and stuff, then compile for use as a prop_something.



Boo f**king Hoo



Quote
 Re: HL1 vs HL2
Posted by omegaslayer on Sun Jul 10th at 6:53pm 2005

I say they are both about the same, HL1 you can impress people with simple brush work and the low level lighting. Custom "anything" is simpler (textures), but they don't look as good with out that nifty bump mapping.

While in HL2 you can imerse your self in the world and create a realistic picture using displacements (Their aplication is famonimal)/water/materials/physics. The only problem I see is that people are using the same props over and over again, it gets boring after a while. What needs to be done is have a way for model/material creation to be simplified.

Also the HL2 community is filled with new mappers, and all we see is boxy rooms with weapons/props slewn everywhere. HL2 mapping hasnt quite taken hold yet, but if given some time is might rise to the level that HL1 is at.

If anything im worried about how DM is practically dead, there are many reasons for this, some on valve's part, but a lot on the HL community as well.

As for the site, I think it isn't what it should be, interlopers has weekly tuts (alomost) and they are more centered around the mapping in general, while this site is more comprised of critiquing the maps that are submitted, and that scares people away, because of the harsh treatment everything is given.

Id also like to point out that when HL2 was released that the member number rised from 800 to 2200 in about 7 months. I ask myself if these 1200 members are contributing to the site (I know there are many "regulars" out there like Satchmo, Dr. Glass who know what they are doing), but there is just a surplus of people here not doing anything to help the site (me included). (If anything I miss the old days of when this community was more compact)

Id agree to another full time admin to work on the site, only problem is I know no one who is as good at PHP as lep is. I think that sufices as to whats been commented so far. More observations please.




Posting And You



Quote
 Re: HL1 vs HL2
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Jul 10th at 7:09pm 2005

? quoting omegaslayer
while this site is more comprised of critiquing the maps that are submitted, and that scares people away, because of the harsh treatment everything is given.

I myself helped to initiate the system as it currently stands. If what advice we hand out is considered harsh, one begs to ask.. What kind of feedback were they getting prior to coming here?

Harsh may or may not be in the eye of the beholder but, when feedback truly does become harsh, many members speak right up and reign in the action pretty damned quick. No one usually gets abused in other words.

I take it kinda personal when someone calls into question "HOW" we do things here because yours truly has been fat in the middle of it all since practically day 1.

I may not be able to say "I DID THAT OR THAT" but I can be proud to be a piece of the way it now is.

IMO, if we scare people off.. screw them, they're pansies and we don't need their kind anyways..

/ rant





The best things in life, aren't things.



Quote
 Re: HL1 vs HL2
Posted by omegaslayer on Sun Jul 10th at 7:17pm 2005

I actually like the critiquing system that is here <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> I guess I should have mentioned that in the begining, it filters out the "kill box people" if you will.


Posting And You



Quote
 Re: HL1 vs HL2
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Jul 10th at 7:27pm 2005

? quoting omegaslayer
I actually like the critiquing system that is here I guess I should have mentioned that in the begining, it filters out the "kill box people" if you will.

Don't get me wrong, I know you were not complaining for complainings sake bud.. I just wonder what these missing members you speak of were thinking before joining?

My last real map was No_Patience.. To look at it now, you wouldn't know that it took me 6 hard weeks to produce.. Mostly because of the feedback I received while it was under construction. 6 weeks.. A very hard 6 weeks to..

Thankfully, I had a great support group. Its not one of the greatest maps here, but it can claim to have one of the biggest group of assistants in its creation. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">





The best things in life, aren't things.



Quote
 Re: HL1 vs HL2
Posted by G.Ballblue on Sun Jul 10th at 7:37pm 2005

? quoting Orpheus

Once upon a time, everything we saw had our full attention because we all participated (or had the option to, we could be active or inactive by choice). Now all we get to do is look from the sidelines.

Personally, I am fully cognizant of the thinking that the bigger a website gets, the less personal it also gets but... I think that if we applied just a few of our old morals to the newer members we would generate more interest in HL2 mapping.

The problem is IMO, most of the newer member have not taken the time to read through our maps forums and seen all the high level critiques we have made in the past. Sad really, but I wish we had put more pressure on Lep to include quality feedback critiques in the site and made them "On Par" with "Reviews"

I bet if we polled the new members, they wouldn't have a clue as to what a critique is, and those that did know, wouldn't know what a quality one looked like. Tis why none of them request any.

Critiques were the best, and I do wish we had more of them around. I kinda have a feeling that the lack of... hmm, "betaism" you could say, is partially due to the complexity of the Hl2 engine -- once you make something, and look at all the hard work you went through to make it, having it changed or ripped out seems like a bit of a blow to the mapper.

Personally, I think Hl1 mapping is the best. It would be absolutely perfect if all HL games, (including HL2) used the simplicity of the Sven-Coop .fgd since it gives mappers Hl2 like power without all the complex linking and parenting and so on.

And as Orph said, HL2 mapping will probably catch on more (especially with me) once valve fixes all the bugs in Hammer 4 :/

Plus, critiques were always fun to read =D




Breaking the laws of mapping since 2003 and doing a damn fine job at it



Quote
 Re: HL1 vs HL2
Posted by Madedog on Sun Jul 10th at 9:32pm 2005

Well... indeed, the Displacement mapping is a cool feature of the Source engine, but as one said already, there should be a way in Hammer which would let you convert a good brushwork into a model, though. It should not be that hard for a company such as Valve! There is nothing that would make doubts fill my mind that way, since this another place you can actually show off your skills of real detaily things!





HL2 tutorials 'n' stuff: http://madedog.pri.ee
217.159.236.34:27050 - CSS Server - Clean | koffer.ee



Quote
 Re: HL1 vs HL2
Posted by Agent Smith on Sun Jul 10th at 11:33pm 2005

You can do that Madedog, there is an export funtion that exports the contents of the mapping file into a format readable by modelling programs. It also exports displacements, so you can do nice smooth objects.



Ham and Jam Contributor
http://www.hamandjam.org

'Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!'



Quote
 Re: HL1 vs HL2
Posted by rival on Sun Jul 10th at 11:43pm 2005

ive never done any mapping for hl1 which is a shame really. i would have really liked to get into it but now i would have that little hl2 in the back at mind nagging at me about how its better. so i had to go for hl2.
i would also really like to finish a map so i could hear some critique but i never gets done...



Quote
 Re: HL1 vs HL2
Posted by Captain P on Mon Jul 11th at 8:55am 2005

? quote:
i would also really like to finish a map so i could hear some critique but i never gets done...


Well-known problem. I usually got stuck on the layout, so these days I try to get a working layout prior to detailing my map. Gotta love those dev textures... :P



Create-ivity - a game development blog



Quote
 Re: HL1 vs HL2
Posted by Myrk- on Mon Jul 11th at 11:35am 2005

I think we need to agree- there are very, very few actual mappers, but alot of people who know how to create basic stuff in the game. Most "mappers" consider criticism harsh because they aren't prepared to learn or take the route.

Its like with an instrument, say guitar. There are many people who can play guitar, but in my eyes, not half of them are guitarists. If you critisize them they will just flare back at you and claim "its for fun", when you know they really wanna be good at it. Many people I know who learn guitar- I try and correct them and they will completely ignore my advice!

Some people just don't take criticism.




-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-




« previous page 1
2
3 next page »
Post Reply