Grand Theft Auto (and Sodomy)
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Re: Grand Theft Auto (and Sodomy)
Posted by satchmo on Thu Jul 21st at 3:52pm 2005


Way to go, Take-Two. I really give them credit for coming up with the best way to market their game--controversy. Now with the rating board threatening to slap them with the most restrictive rating ever for a main-stream game, they should have no problem selling the game.

I pity the rating board. They don't even realize that they're being played like a puppet. Now they (and the entire media) are just being recruited as part of the publicity team for the game title.

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From the Los Angeles Times:

Hidden Sex Scenes Spark Furor Over Video Game By Alex Pham
Times Staff Writer

July 21, 2005

The oversight board that puts parental ratings on video games took the unusual step Wednesday of slapping its strongest warning on a bestselling title as the game maker admitted putting explicit, interactive sex scenes on the disc.

Retailers began pulling copies of "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" from their shelves after the Entertainment Software Ratings Board revoked the game's "Mature" rating and raised it to "Adults Only." Publisher Take-Two Interactive Software Inc. said it planned to rework "San Andreas" ? the top-selling video game of 2004 ? and reissue it later this year.

The ratings board is similar to the Motion Picture Assn. of America's rating board. A "Mature" rating is analogous to an R movie rating, and "Adults Only" is equivalent to NC-17. Most retailers refuse to sell "Adults Only" games.

Executives at New York-based Take-Two had denied for weeks that company programmers were responsible for the graphic sex scenes, which can be unlocked with software that was widely available on the Internet. But Wednesday they acknowledged that the game's designers had created the scenes, dubbed "Hot Coffee."

"The editing of any game is a highly technical process," said Take-Two spokesman Rodney Walker. "We liken it to a painter who paints one painting and paints over it on the same canvas."

Walker's explanation did little to mollify critics, who point to the "Grand Theft Auto" series to highlight the issue of violence and sexuality in video games. The games celebrate nihilistic killing, and Take-Two has reveled in its image as the bad boy of a $25-billion global game industry that's trying to gain respectability to match its profits.

"It looks like Take-Two Interactive purposefully conned the video game industry rating board and parents across the country," said Washington state Rep. Mary Lou Dickerson. " 'San Andreas,' as a top-selling game in the country, now is in the hands of thousands of children who can practice interactive pornography. There should be legal consequences ? so [the company doesn't] laugh all the way to the bank."

"San Andreas," which retails for about $50, has sold more than 12 million copies worldwide since its launch in October. "Mature" rated games are intended for players older than 17. Many retailers keep such games under lock and key and have policies requiring clerks to check the identification of buyers.

Wal-Mart Stores Inc., which accounts for as much as 20% of video game sales in the United States, began removing "San Andreas" from its shelves Wednesday, as did Best Buy Co.

"Our policy is not to carry any adult titles on our shelves," said Wal-Mart spokeswoman Karen Burk, who said buyers "can certainly bring the product back" for a refund.

Take-Two said it would make a patch available for downloading so that customers could block the sex scenes.

Word of the scenes began spreading over the Internet last month after Dutch programmer Patrick Wildenbourg began distributing software that he said unlocked them.

Many video games have secrets to which players gain access as they progress. They might, for instance, win extra powers or reach hidden levels.

"Hot Coffee," by contrast, is an interactive sex game, featuring oral sex and intercourse.

Wildenbourg, who removed his software from the Internet on Wednesday, declined to comment.

As late as last week, Take-Two had insisted that the sex scenes were "the work of a determined group of hackers who have gone to significant trouble to alter scenes in the official version of the game." Hackers, the company said, created the scenes by "disassembling and then combining, recompiling and altering the game's code."

The scenes prompted an outcry from game critics, including Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), who last week called for a federal investigation into "Hot Coffee."

The Entertainment Software Ratings Board began a review to determine whether the scenes were part of the game's original code and warranted a re-rating of "San Andreas," versions of which play on Sony Corp.'s PlayStation 2, Microsoft Corp.'s Xbox and personal computers.

"After a thorough investigation, we have concluded that sexually explicit material exists in a fully rendered, unmodified form on the final discs of all three platform versions of the game," said Patricia Vance, president of the ratings board. "Clearly the [original] rating was incorrect, and it needed to be corrected."

Take-Two's Walker said Wednesday that the sex scenes were never meant to be seen by the public and that they were revealed only when an outside programmer, called a "modder," wrote software to unlock them.

"The mod community scratched the painting, revealing the earlier work," he said.

Analysts estimated that modifying and remarketing "San Andreas" would cost Take-Two about $40 million in lost sales. Shares of Take-Two fell 11% in after-hours trading.

"It was a very poor exercise of judgment and a very costly one," said Michael Pachter, a video game industry analyst at Wedbush Morgan Securities in Los Angeles. "It's an embarrassment for management because obviously a maverick developer in their studios decided to put this stuff in there. I can only fault the management team for not putting systems in place to vet their games."

Take-Two is no stranger to controversy. Previous installments of "Grand Theft Auto" have been adored by hard-core gamers but excoriated by parent groups and lawmakers for their depictions of violence and sex.

In one, players could have sex with a prostitute and then beat her to death and take back their money. That game was rated "Mature" because players did not see the sex. Instead, they saw a parked car rock back and forth.

Some lawmakers criticized the ratings board for failing to detect the sex scenes in its initial evaluation of "San Andreas" last year. Although the system is voluntary, most game publishers seek a rating from the organization, which evaluated more than 1,000 titles last year.

"It should not have taken this long," said Rep. Joe Baca (D-Rialto). "This is evidence that the voluntary ratings system does not work."

Video game industry executives tried to assure parents that the "San Andreas" incident was an anomaly.

The ratings board "has been in business for 11 years, and there has never yet been an incident of this kind," said Doug Lowenstein, head of the Entertainment Software Assn., the industry's trade group. "You're looking at well over 10,000 games rated. If you look at that track record, you can say parents have every reason to be confident in the ratings system."

Some consumers weren't completely reassured.

"As a parent I've lost some confidence in the [ratings board's] ability to police the industry," said Dennis McCauley, editor of GamePolitics.com. "But [the board] did take a big step today, and I have to give them credit for that."



"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



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Re: Grand Theft Auto (and Sodomy)
Posted by French Toast on Thu Jul 21st at 4:04pm 2005


Hah, I want the game now <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">







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Re: Grand Theft Auto (and Sodomy)
Posted by Windows 98 on Thu Jul 21st at 4:55pm 2005


Im not sure where your located on this year BUT here in the US that has been already discoverd a long time ago. It was on G4 like.... 3 or 4 weeks ago. They even showed it on TV to show it was real (with censors because they need to block out polygraphic pron). It was quite entertaining.






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Re: Grand Theft Auto (and Sodomy)
Posted by satchmo on Thu Jul 21st at 8:33pm 2005


Yeah, it's not news, but now the general public (instead of just the gamers) is also aware of it.

Let the downloading begin!




"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



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Re: Grand Theft Auto (and Sodomy)
Posted by Andrei on Thu Jul 21st at 8:53pm 2005


(post link when you find)

[edit]

http://forums.myg0t.com/showthread.php?threadid=14677




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Re: Grand Theft Auto (and Sodomy)
Posted by omegaslayer on Fri Jul 22nd at 12:33am 2005


My question is: Why was that junk there in the first place? Why the F*$% would rockstar put it in? Does it make the game "cooler"? Does it give the game "street credit"? What kind of F*$%-up world do we live in here?






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Re: Grand Theft Auto (and Sodomy)
Posted by ReNo on Fri Jul 22nd at 12:47am 2005


The possibilities are either than it was meant to be removed but never was, that it was a rogue element within rockstar that snuck it in without permission, or that it was put there on purpose as a potential late arriving publicity boost. If we look at another rockstar game such as Manhunt, that received a very significant boost of sales after a kid murdered another kid and had it linked to the game. In fact in many places it saw what was an old game, returning to the top 10's without any price cuts or other marketing gimmicks applied. While obviously that was not done on purpose by rockstar, it is a prime example of controversy sparking revitalised sales of a game. "Accomodating" for that in advance is a risky, but potentially worthwhile move for such a company, so it wouldn't be a huge surprise if this prove to be the case.






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Re: Grand Theft Auto (and Sodomy)
Posted by Agent Smith on Fri Jul 22nd at 12:48am 2005


? quote:
"It looks like Take-Two Interactive purposefully conned the video game industry rating board and parents across the country," said Washington state Rep. Mary Lou Dickerson.


BULLs**t. I'm surprised the game isn't always rated what it is now, as Rockstar has repeatedly stated that the game isn't made for children, that its made for adults. If any parents allowed their children to buy it before this, it'd be no different if they bought it afterward. THE GAME IS NOT MEANT FOR CHILDREN, yet parents repeatedly buy it for children then have the gall to complain about it. All I'd like to say to those parents who bought the game for little Johnny and are now complaining about how they were deuped, SHUT THE f**k UP!!

End of rant/



Ham and Jam Contributor
http://www.hamandjam.org

'Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!'



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Re: Grand Theft Auto (and Sodomy)
Posted by satchmo on Fri Jul 22nd at 1:00am 2005


The rating standard is pretty f**ked up, if you consider it closely. It's not as bad to carjack and slaughter people with machine guns, but it's a major problem to have sex.

It wasn't even violent sex. It's just plain, good, natural kinda sex (the kind that all of us are most likely going to experience at one point or another in our lives). Is that so bad compared to murder?

Our priorities are all mess up.




"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



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Re: Grand Theft Auto (and Sodomy)
Posted by rs6 on Fri Jul 22nd at 2:08am 2005


reminds me of the southparl movie, "horrific violence and sex is ok. As long as there is no dirty words" <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_lol.gif">



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Re: Grand Theft Auto (and Sodomy)
Posted by DrGlass on Fri Jul 22nd at 2:20am 2005


Good point satchmo. This is the first thing I've seen in a long time where sex wasn't used as a gimick but it was just a simulation of real life. GTA didn't put that in the game to help push the title, it was some hidden code that got left behind. People get upset about that, while their kids are watching Sex in the City or the OC. Also, PG-13 movies have lots of sex in them. Isn't the Island PG-13? I saw more sexual content in that commercial than you could find in GTA.

Its also strange that they are getting in all this fuss becuase it is possible, through a large amount of cheat code inputing and stuff to even see it (on the PS2). You have to download a MOD to get it to work for the PC, and I must say that if some one wants to go through all the trouble of finding and installing this MOD they might as well take 15 seconds and find some porn on the internet.






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Re: Grand Theft Auto (and Sodomy)
Posted by satchmo on Fri Jul 22nd at 2:23am 2005


? quote:
As long as there is no dirty words

And did you know that one "f**k" is allowed per movie for a PG-13 rating, but more than one in a movie makes it an "R" rated film.

Does that make any sense to anyone? It's like it's okay to kill one person, but if you kill more than one, then you become a criminal.

I guess this thread is automatically rated "R" now, because I've typed "f**k" more than twice already.




"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



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Re: Grand Theft Auto (and Sodomy)
Posted by rival on Fri Jul 22nd at 3:47am 2005


how can this software be uploaded from the pc to the ps2? USB maybe? also in britain there hasnt been any controversy over there (that i know of) yet.


Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
&quot;I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!&quot;



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Re: Grand Theft Auto (and Sodomy)
Posted by DrGlass on Fri Jul 22nd at 3:49am 2005


you can unlock it on the PS2 with lots of "cheat codes" typed into a game shark.






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Re: Grand Theft Auto (and Sodomy)
Posted by rival on Fri Jul 22nd at 3:58am 2005


oh damn! its sounds so difficult and expensive and i was looking forward to getting it!!

gameshark? damn i know ive heard that before, what is it again? i was thinking you could just connect up a usb to the ps2 and upload the software straight into the san andreas save game file.

and it is strange that extreme and senseless violence is more exceptable then a completely natural biological function.





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Re: Grand Theft Auto (and Sodomy)
Posted by Andrei on Fri Jul 22nd at 10:13am 2005


Excuse me, but is this correct:

Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons of age 17 and older.

As opposed to the stricter AO rating:

Titles rated AO (Adults Only) have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older.

If it is, then it's for sure in the top5 for the world's stupidest things ever!




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Re: Grand Theft Auto (and Sodomy)
Posted by Leperous on Fri Jul 22nd at 10:25am 2005


So, you can get married when you're 16 in many US states and in the UK, but you're not going to be allowed to buy a game with pixel boobies in it if you're 17? How bizzarre (Yes I know the same thing applies to films with real nakedness throughout the world too...)

? quote:
"The editing of any game is a highly technical process," said Take-Two spokesman Rodney Walker. "We liken it to a painter who paints one painting and paints over it on the same canvas."

That's a very artsy way of saying "we don't want to delete the naked skins until there's more media controversy/publicity surrounding the game" <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_lol.gif">





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Re: Grand Theft Auto (and Sodomy)
Posted by Andrei on Fri Jul 22nd at 10:52am 2005


What's weird is that they found the sex offensive. Ok, so blowing-up legions of cops, stealing hard working pimps' cars and murdering prostitutes with chainsaws is not offensive but casual sex is.




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Re: Grand Theft Auto (and Sodomy)
Posted by Hugh on Fri Jul 22nd at 11:14am 2005


Aye, Conan had a joke about it. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> Something along the lines of ->

"Parents are outraged that the game Grand Theft Auto has scenes of sex in it... parents say they bought the game so their kids could commit violent carjackings, not to have sex!"



One day you'll know what you're talking about, I can hardly imagine

Maps! - Audio blog!



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Re: Grand Theft Auto (and Sodomy)
Posted by Agent Smith on Fri Jul 22nd at 11:41am 2005


And I don't know how many of you guys have played it, but its not like the female models even look like women. I've been into a few of the strip clubs in the game and laughed so hard, its not like they're seriously trying to make it sexually explicit, because if they were they'd make the models look even remotely human. Or just put in some real porn clip or something.



Ham and Jam Contributor
http://www.hamandjam.org

'Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!'




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