http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8738475/
I think this is good news. Right? Or is it bad and I just don't see it?
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Re: "IRA Ends armed campaign"
Posted by Nickelplate on Thu Jul 28th at 2:58pm 2005
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Posted by Nickelplate on Thu Jul 28th at 2:58pm 2005
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Re: "IRA Ends armed campaign"
Posted by Adam Hawkins on Thu Jul 28th at 3:12pm 2005
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Posted by Adam Hawkins on Thu Jul 28th at 3:12pm 2005
What...again? Every time this happens, a bomb goes off somewhere and it all kicks off again. Or we won't free some IRA terrorists because of the IRA's 'good intentions', so they retract their words.
Maybe they mean it this time in light of the recent terrorist attacks in London.
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Re: "IRA Ends armed campaign"
Posted by Rof on Thu Jul 28th at 6:06pm 2005
Posted by Rof on Thu Jul 28th at 6:06pm 2005
This probably doesn't make much difference to the splinter groups of
hard-liners who never went along with the ceasefire in the first place,
the "Real IRA" (what a pathetic name for a terrorist
organisation, it makes them sound like "The Real Ghostbusters" or "The
New Schmoo" or something) and the "Continuity IRA".
Re: "IRA Ends armed campaign"
Posted by Mephs on Thu Jul 28th at 6:43pm 2005
This was decided a long time ago and was the word on the street as Huggy Bear would say. Paramilitary organisations don't go "ooh no, look what they did in London! Lets never fight again, f**k the occupation of Irish soil by the British...".
[edit: and just cause I can, heres a London bombing smilie:]
Personally, I feel its history repeating itself. We have a majority of government which is not willing to power share. When the first elections came out they vowed to ruin the power sharing government from within. Ian Paisley has no intention whatsoever of any kind of compromise or sharing of power (he was even against the civil rights protests calling for equality for catholics in the late 60s). He is the Reverend of his own church (which isnt recognised, which is why he is also allowed to sit in Westminster) and his party, the DUP suspended a member because it was revealed he was homosexual. Also the DUP/Free Presbyterians called on the parades commision to ban the Gay Pride parade in Belfast. NOT a tolerant group of people for any kind of ethnic, religious, or cultural diversity. And also the voice of the Ulster unionist/loyalist people of Northern Ireland (at least the UUPs Trimble wasn't bigoted and borderline racist!!)
Power sharing is impossible, any republican or nationalist proposals will be blocked for badness by the DUP, and the British government will have to be called in to suspend government once again, like they were taking a toy of a pair of six year olds that can't f**king share.
Incidently, I'll wager that not one of you anti-'terrorist' people even gave a thought to the other half, the Loyalists, who have killed as many as our community! It takes two to tango, and none of those f**kers have made any concessions either. The IRA is certainly NOT the only paramilitary group in this country people.
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Posted by Mephs on Thu Jul 28th at 6:43pm 2005
? quote:
Maybe they mean it this time in light of the recent terrorist attacks in London.
This was decided a long time ago and was the word on the street as Huggy Bear would say. Paramilitary organisations don't go "ooh no, look what they did in London! Lets never fight again, f**k the occupation of Irish soil by the British...".
[edit: and just cause I can, heres a London bombing smilie:]
Personally, I feel its history repeating itself. We have a majority of government which is not willing to power share. When the first elections came out they vowed to ruin the power sharing government from within. Ian Paisley has no intention whatsoever of any kind of compromise or sharing of power (he was even against the civil rights protests calling for equality for catholics in the late 60s). He is the Reverend of his own church (which isnt recognised, which is why he is also allowed to sit in Westminster) and his party, the DUP suspended a member because it was revealed he was homosexual. Also the DUP/Free Presbyterians called on the parades commision to ban the Gay Pride parade in Belfast. NOT a tolerant group of people for any kind of ethnic, religious, or cultural diversity. And also the voice of the Ulster unionist/loyalist people of Northern Ireland (at least the UUPs Trimble wasn't bigoted and borderline racist!!)
Power sharing is impossible, any republican or nationalist proposals will be blocked for badness by the DUP, and the British government will have to be called in to suspend government once again, like they were taking a toy of a pair of six year olds that can't f**king share.
Incidently, I'll wager that not one of you anti-'terrorist' people even gave a thought to the other half, the Loyalists, who have killed as many as our community! It takes two to tango, and none of those f**kers have made any concessions either. The IRA is certainly NOT the only paramilitary group in this country people.
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Re: "IRA Ends armed campaign"
Posted by Leperous on Fri Jul 29th at 10:43am 2005
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Posted by Leperous on Fri Jul 29th at 10:43am 2005
? quoting Mephs
This was decided a long time ago and was the word on the street as Huggy Bear would say. Paramilitary organisations don't go "ooh no, look what they did in London! Lets never fight again, f**k the occupation of Irish soil by the British...".
No they don't, but they do go "s**t, if we carry on our armed campaign then the Americans won't give us any more money because they can't be seen to be funding terrorism, and the whole world will turn against us if we try to bomb anything." Admittedly the situation is a mess (will the IRA step up their non-lethal criminal activities?) but by any measure this is still (hopefully) a step forwards.
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Re: "IRA Ends armed campaign"
Posted by Forceflow on Fri Jul 29th at 1:59pm 2005
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Posted by Forceflow on Fri Jul 29th at 1:59pm 2005
They already did that a thousand of times. I hate being pessimistic, but that's just the way it is.
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Re: "IRA Ends armed campaign"
Posted by Mephs on Fri Jul 29th at 5:50pm 2005
No, thats pretty wrong. The 'war on terror' has nothing to do with IRA disarmament. Don't pretend you know about something you clearly don't. Thats an opinion. And a poorly informed one at that. You might think that the war on terror and the IRA decommisioning are linked but if you look at the timeline you'll see that these steps go back to '95. It was only as a result of the DUP's demand for an 'ashes and sackcloths' photo of the disarmament (which WONT happen) that stretched this out to this time.
Nah, note how much trouble the British government have gone to, re-releasing the Shankill bomber (I personally think the bombing was f**king barbaric and shamefull), and the very next day the Armagh checkpoints (which are basically the British's eye on the big IRA stronghold) is being dismantled. Both are seriously big gestures that anyone without 100% faith in the disarmament would NEVER do.
As a nation, Northern Irish people of both communities have a sixth sense about politicians bulls**tting them, having been f**ked round more politically than anywhere else, and protestant friends also believe in it too.
The only thing is that a handful might dissent and hold on to their weapons, but I'd say that would have been internally dealt with before this...
On another note:
However, I think Tony Blair might have redeemed himself to an extent, and might step down soon because of this. It was speculated that he wanted to make another achievement before he handed over to Brown so that he wouldnt just be "Tony 'Iraq war' Blair, PM".
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Posted by Mephs on Fri Jul 29th at 5:50pm 2005
? quote:
but they do go "s**t, if we carry on our armed campaign then the
Americans won't give us any more money because they can't be seen to be
funding terrorism, and the whole world will turn against us if we try
to bomb anything."
No, thats pretty wrong. The 'war on terror' has nothing to do with IRA disarmament. Don't pretend you know about something you clearly don't. Thats an opinion. And a poorly informed one at that. You might think that the war on terror and the IRA decommisioning are linked but if you look at the timeline you'll see that these steps go back to '95. It was only as a result of the DUP's demand for an 'ashes and sackcloths' photo of the disarmament (which WONT happen) that stretched this out to this time.
? quote:
They already did that a thousand of times. I hate being pessimistic, but that's just the way it is.
Nah, note how much trouble the British government have gone to, re-releasing the Shankill bomber (I personally think the bombing was f**king barbaric and shamefull), and the very next day the Armagh checkpoints (which are basically the British's eye on the big IRA stronghold) is being dismantled. Both are seriously big gestures that anyone without 100% faith in the disarmament would NEVER do.
As a nation, Northern Irish people of both communities have a sixth sense about politicians bulls**tting them, having been f**ked round more politically than anywhere else, and protestant friends also believe in it too.
The only thing is that a handful might dissent and hold on to their weapons, but I'd say that would have been internally dealt with before this...
On another note:
However, I think Tony Blair might have redeemed himself to an extent, and might step down soon because of this. It was speculated that he wanted to make another achievement before he handed over to Brown so that he wouldnt just be "Tony 'Iraq war' Blair, PM".
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Re: "IRA Ends armed campaign"
Posted by Leperous on Sat Jul 30th at 12:12am 2005
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Posted by Leperous on Sat Jul 30th at 12:12am 2005
Don't you just love it when people accuse you of "knowing nothing", just after doing something offensive & juvenile (bus-bombing smilies?), and just before demonstrating their own "poorly informed" opinion (Blair stepping down because NI has been sorted out). Yes I realise they started the current cease-fire about 8 years ago, but the the IRA exists as a criminal/terrorist group (cease-fire or not) and currently the West has a dislike for people who use violence to achieve political/religious aims (especially in the USA, a large source of funding...) and I'm sure this is catalysing the current situation somewhat.
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Re: "IRA Ends armed campaign"
Posted by Nickelplate on Sat Jul 30th at 3:15am 2005
No, thats pretty wrong. The 'war on terror' has nothing to do with IRA disarmament. Don't pretend you know about something you clearly don't. Thats an opinion. And a poorly informed one at that. You might think that the war on terror and the IRA decommisioning are linked but if you look at the timeline you'll see that these steps go back to '95. It was only as a result of the DUP's demand for an 'ashes and sackcloths' photo of the disarmament (which WONT happen) that stretched this out to this time.
Posted by Nickelplate on Sat Jul 30th at 3:15am 2005
? quoting Mephs
No, thats pretty wrong. The 'war on terror' has nothing to do with IRA disarmament. Don't pretend you know about something you clearly don't. Thats an opinion. And a poorly informed one at that. You might think that the war on terror and the IRA decommisioning are linked but if you look at the timeline you'll see that these steps go back to '95. It was only as a result of the DUP's demand for an 'ashes and sackcloths' photo of the disarmament (which WONT happen) that stretched this out to this time.
Mephs, the US had started the anti [mostly arab] terror stuff after the lesser-known-and-unsuccessful 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center (osama masterminded THAT one too...)
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Re: "IRA Ends armed campaign"
Posted by Cassius on Sat Jul 30th at 4:28am 2005
Don't pretend you have the right to s**t on a debate and insult a moderator at the same time.
Posted by Cassius on Sat Jul 30th at 4:28am 2005
? quoting Mephs
Don't pretend you know about something you clearly don't. Thats an opinion.
Re: "IRA Ends armed campaign"
Posted by Mephs on Sat Jul 30th at 2:53pm 2005
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Posted by Mephs on Sat Jul 30th at 2:53pm 2005
OK I'm noticing hostility, but I live in Northern Ireland so I really do know more about it than you guys.
YES, my smilie was childish.
Blair wasn't a poorly informed opinion it was me surmising, not saying that he will or has or he did because of something else. I'm politically gossiping, reread my phrasing.
It was more the way you put it that annoyed me Lep, its something that will send my community back into second class citizenship again, over time so I was more than annoyed when people say crap like that (which I'll be the first to admit I've done in 99% of the topics here![<img src=]()
" SRC="images/smiles/sad.gif"> )
The war on terror and IRA ceasefire are seperate things. Don't be so naive as to bunch everything together just because they coincide, people.
I was adding to the debate, and Leperous is intelligent enough to take it and reply as he did. Calm down, Cass, kiddo.![<img src=]()
" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">
Make sick jokes, laugh and jeer, but don't pull ideas out of you asses and post them as fact.
The. Struggle. Is. Over. IRA. Is. No. More.
Lets all calm down...
Incidently, I'd like to hear Smidsys opinion on all of this, since hes a British soldier posted over here. Ask HIM if he thinks its related.
? quote:
Don't you just love it when people accuse you of "knowing nothing",
just after doing something offensive & juvenile (bus-bombing
smilies?), and just before demonstrating their own "poorly informed"
opinion (Blair stepping down because NI has been sorted out). Yes I
realise they started the current cease-fire about 8 years ago, but the
the IRA exists as a criminal/terrorist group (cease-fire or not) and
currently the West has a dislike for people who use violence to achieve
political/religious aims (especially in the USA, a large source of
funding...) and I'm sure this is catalysing the current situation
somewhat.
YES, my smilie was childish.
Blair wasn't a poorly informed opinion it was me surmising, not saying that he will or has or he did because of something else. I'm politically gossiping, reread my phrasing.
It was more the way you put it that annoyed me Lep, its something that will send my community back into second class citizenship again, over time so I was more than annoyed when people say crap like that (which I'll be the first to admit I've done in 99% of the topics here
The war on terror and IRA ceasefire are seperate things. Don't be so naive as to bunch everything together just because they coincide, people.
? quote:
Don't pretend you have the right to s**t on a debate and insult a moderator at the same time.
I was adding to the debate, and Leperous is intelligent enough to take it and reply as he did. Calm down, Cass, kiddo.
Make sick jokes, laugh and jeer, but don't pull ideas out of you asses and post them as fact.
The. Struggle. Is. Over. IRA. Is. No. More.
Lets all calm down...
Incidently, I'd like to hear Smidsys opinion on all of this, since hes a British soldier posted over here. Ask HIM if he thinks its related.
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Re: "IRA Ends armed campaign"
Posted by Nickelplate on Sun Jul 31st at 12:23am 2005
that says it right there, fellas. I mean, straight from the horse's mouth...
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Posted by Nickelplate on Sun Jul 31st at 12:23am 2005
? quoting Smidsys
Hello, I think it is all related. Nickelplate is right all the way. Because he is so awesome.
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Re: "IRA Ends armed campaign"
Posted by Myrk- on Sun Jul 31st at 12:31am 2005
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Posted by Myrk- on Sun Jul 31st at 12:31am 2005
I personally think more of Mephs point of view- he seems to live in NI, so I think he knows it a bit better. Us talking about NI is like yanks talking about the geography and size of Europe and UK!
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Re: "IRA Ends armed campaign"
Posted by jake on Sun Jul 31st at 12:53am 2005
hear hear!
Posted by jake on Sun Jul 31st at 12:53am 2005
? quote:
I personally think more of Mephs point of view- he seems to live
in NI, so I think he knows it a bit better. Us talking about NI is like
yanks talking about the geography and size of Europe and UK!
hear hear!
Re: "IRA Ends armed campaign"
Posted by Mephs on Sun Jul 31st at 12:37pm 2005
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Posted by Mephs on Sun Jul 31st at 12:37pm 2005
Thank you, myrk, jake. Nickleplate STFU! 
But I've noticed british media opinion can't quite distinquish the two things clearly. I've noticed 'celebrities' like the guy who plays ken in Coronation Street (a UK soap opera) saying the exact same thing as Leperous.
I'll try and make it clear: The decommisioning of the IRA took so bloody long (10 years) because it had to be made clear that they didn't "give up". Now I'm probably well biased about the IRA, as a nominal catholic/republican, and its far more than a kick in the teeth that they decommisioned in such a loyalist biased climate, but it was well known this would have happened for months. The reason it didn't happen years before hand was BECAUSE it was an action that needed taken without it appearing to be a surrender. It would have happened earlier if it wasn't for the DUP's ashes and sackcloth demand.
I might be able to accept US Republicans trying to join the phantom war on terror (McCarthy witchhunt) with a terrorist group decomissioning, but not people who see it for what it is. It demeans you and everything you stand by, by putting two and two together and getting six. Indiscriminate 'terrorist' bashers who think all fighting not endorsed by governments is wrong have NO PLACE on the left. Its a judgement call, but I'm f**king making it.
Governments are wrong and wars happen. Just because you don't have a uniform and the bigger guns does NOT mean that you are an enemy to the people. You're living in Orwell's 1984 with that kind of reasoning. The day when the left chickens out and thinks like that is when humanity fails.
You don't have to pick a colour, team or flag. Make your own choices. Don't be scared that because you don't sit in Westminster that somehow that means you cannot be right. Governments are full of human beings that make wrong choices. Their word or choice is by no means infallible, UK and US governments took the people to war without public consultation, don't forget.
[/screaming] [/rant]
But I've noticed british media opinion can't quite distinquish the two things clearly. I've noticed 'celebrities' like the guy who plays ken in Coronation Street (a UK soap opera) saying the exact same thing as Leperous.
I'll try and make it clear: The decommisioning of the IRA took so bloody long (10 years) because it had to be made clear that they didn't "give up". Now I'm probably well biased about the IRA, as a nominal catholic/republican, and its far more than a kick in the teeth that they decommisioned in such a loyalist biased climate, but it was well known this would have happened for months. The reason it didn't happen years before hand was BECAUSE it was an action that needed taken without it appearing to be a surrender. It would have happened earlier if it wasn't for the DUP's ashes and sackcloth demand.
I might be able to accept US Republicans trying to join the phantom war on terror (McCarthy witchhunt) with a terrorist group decomissioning, but not people who see it for what it is. It demeans you and everything you stand by, by putting two and two together and getting six. Indiscriminate 'terrorist' bashers who think all fighting not endorsed by governments is wrong have NO PLACE on the left. Its a judgement call, but I'm f**king making it.
Governments are wrong and wars happen. Just because you don't have a uniform and the bigger guns does NOT mean that you are an enemy to the people. You're living in Orwell's 1984 with that kind of reasoning. The day when the left chickens out and thinks like that is when humanity fails.
You don't have to pick a colour, team or flag. Make your own choices. Don't be scared that because you don't sit in Westminster that somehow that means you cannot be right. Governments are full of human beings that make wrong choices. Their word or choice is by no means infallible, UK and US governments took the people to war without public consultation, don't forget.
[/screaming] [/rant]
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Re: "IRA Ends armed campaign"
Posted by Leperous on Sun Jul 31st at 1:25pm 2005
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Posted by Leperous on Sun Jul 31st at 1:25pm 2005
I don't think that this global terrorism thing is causing the IRA to disarm and dispand; all I ever said (well, intended to) was that it was helping it move along in that direction. /goes away now
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Re: "IRA Ends armed campaign"
Posted by Mephs on Sun Jul 31st at 1:32pm 2005
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Posted by Mephs on Sun Jul 31st at 1:32pm 2005
Actually, that might be true to some extent. Everything is a political
factor in it. But it was going to happen regardless, not because of it.
That's the one thing that needs kept straight./walks behind lep with a
broken bottle
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Re: "IRA Ends armed campaign"
Posted by Nickelplate on Sun Jul 31st at 6:39pm 2005
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Posted by Nickelplate on Sun Jul 31st at 6:39pm 2005
I never said it was all related (and was serious.) But i think it is somewhat related because ALL world events have a little bit of other world events in them.
the point is, Mephs is right (partially) Just because you're not the government doesnt mean that your fight is irrelevant or wrong. But, governments are made to HELP people. not just SOME people but ALL people in thier country and they even have some responsibility to the rest of the world. If a government is not giving all people equal representation, then they're not doing thier job and reforms are in order.
on the other hand, bombing and militias are not the way to get your point across. When you do that goverments don't listen to you and try to make you public enemy #1. i.e. IRA
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Re: "IRA Ends armed campaign"
Posted by smidsy on Mon Aug 1st at 10:04am 2005
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Posted by smidsy on Mon Aug 1st at 10:04am 2005
sighs...1 thing that the ira want u to think that they have finished there armed campaign..the provos wont stop....everyone knows this ive been in the army for lest bout 4 years and i live in the ni you just know that those ppl will enevitably be doing somit bad/drug dealing/money laundering/ race fixing/armed robbery and probably weapons trafficing. saying that the uda/uff/uvf/lvf/uym arent too far off them aswell there just as bad..
To be honest im sick of the whole lot..i wanna move but i dont know where.. there all the same they say somit n go back on it ,eg their so called cease fire..in 95 then omagh bomb happens in 98.
btw im an irishman in the RIR
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Re: "IRA Ends armed campaign"
Posted by pepper on Mon Aug 1st at 3:58pm 2005
Posted by pepper on Mon Aug 1st at 3:58pm 2005
I agree with mephs, for what it is worth, since i do not even live in the UK.
Wasnt there a exclusion from Irish politicians in there own governement a few years ago? This was deu to the terrorism of the IRA. Or am i totaly wrong on this?
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