Map Critiques.
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Re: Map Critiques.
Posted by Underdog on Thu Jul 28th at 6:36pm 2005


I have been spending days just reading through the site. Quite an undertaking I assure you. I have just completed most all the tutorials, but fear not, I absorbed almost none of them, so a reread is most definitely in my future plans. I however have noticed some interesting critiquing in the maps section. How does one go about being an official Snarkpit critique writer? I think I could learn almost as much about mapping by noting the mistakes others make and would really like to get into such a trade. Assuming of course, that being a critiquer is not taboo till you meet a certain requirement.

Any insights on the subject?




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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Re: Map Critiques.
Posted by satchmo on Thu Jul 28th at 6:45pm 2005


There is no official requirement to write critiques for maps, but it's expected that the critiquer has some experience in mapping and has made a few maps.

If the experience is lacking, it'll become quite evident quickly. You have to earn respect at the Pit by making quality maps.




"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



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Re: Map Critiques.
Posted by ReNo on Thu Jul 28th at 6:50pm 2005


Its not really something we have in an "official" sense. Anybody is welcome to critique another's map. Some of us (Orph being a prime example) have a reputation for giving in depth critiques and so occasionally people might ask for them particular to give feedback, but in most cases people will just post their level in the maps forum and appreciate anybody that shares their thoughts. If the mood takes you, when somebody posts their work in progress level on the forums (or just on the main site), download it, give it a run around, take a few notes and screenshots, and post it all together on the forums. The maker of the level will almost always appreciate your critique (provided you are fair - don't slam things unnecessarily, give constructive critcism and try to pick out some positives), regardless of your level of ability or your snarkpit membership number Of course satchmo does have a point about earning respect by proving your ability, and if you are known your comments might hold more weight, but I don't think that means newcomers' opinions aren't worth hearing.






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Re: Map Critiques.
Posted by Underdog on Thu Jul 28th at 6:53pm 2005


You mean, you have to be able to make them only? I cannot know a quality map by simply playing it?

I might not know what goes into making a wall, but I should be able to figure out if that wall belongs or not.

Maybe thats why some of the critiques are failing to grab the authors. You are forgetting the fact that if you run into a wall that doesn't belong even a non mapper would recognize it.

I suppose I better make something then.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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Re: Map Critiques.
Posted by Andrei on Thu Jul 28th at 7:27pm 2005


? quote:
I have just completed most all the tutorials, but fear not, I absorbed almost none of them, so a reread is most definitely in my future plans.


I don't think there's any need to torture yourself like that <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> . Just open the editor and have fun but most importantly explore and experiment. When you come across something you just can't figure out, then look-up a tutorial. If you read them all like a novel then you can be sure you won't rememeber a thing when you're done.




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Re: Map Critiques.
Posted by rival on Thu Jul 28th at 7:31pm 2005


its not all about making maps its about having a good understanding of the theme, how well its played and knowing about environments. you could not have a clue how to make a map but being able to pick out the details, understand the theme, observe the environments and make judgements based on what you've seen you dont need to be any good a mapping, though it does help.

for example, an architect could know nothing about mapping but would still be able to give a damn good critique on how a building is laid out or looks. same goes for a landscaper or a furnisher. it is good to have a know on these subjects to be a good critiquer but it isnt a necessity. for me its all about how the map looks. i dont really care about playablity, its how good the environments look. ive done reading on landscaping and archtecture and have a basic understanding of such things (remember basic only, i dont claim to have a true omniscience of landscaping) and it is good to know these things.

educated = better maps




Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
&quot;I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!&quot;



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Re: Map Critiques.
Posted by Underdog on Thu Jul 28th at 7:39pm 2005


I can see your point on which knowing how to map may provide you with knowledge that pertains to construction. I fail however to see how not knowing how to map would handicap you in a critique.

As I tried hopelessly to explain, that is a wall were needed, then a non mapper would know it just as well as a mapper would. Concealment and such would dictate certain fundamental applications. I know its a game, so reality aside, damned few are gonna be safe ducking behind a crate in an HL map, but if the crate belonged and was missing, then a non mapper would recognize this and be able to say "Put a crate here"

I may not know how to create a teleporter, but I would know that if I wanted to get from "A" to "B" and it would enhance the game play, then I could suggest "You know, a teleporter by that tree would be a great spot to port you up to that ledge back there"

I may be way off base, but thats got to be something of the truth.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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Re: Map Critiques.
Posted by rival on Thu Jul 28th at 7:41pm 2005


? quoting Underdog
I can see your point on which knowing how to map may provide you with knowledge that pertains to construction. I fail however to see how not knowing how to map would handicap you in a critique.

As I tried hopelessly to explain, that is a wall were needed, then a non mapper would know it just as well as a mapper would. Concealment and such would dictate certain fundamental applications. I know its a game, so reality aside, damned few are gonna be safe ducking behind a crate in an HL map, but if the crate belonged and was missing, then a non mapper would recognize this and be able to say "Put a crate here"

I may not know how to create a teleporter, but I would know that if I wanted to get from "A" to "B" and it would enhance the game play, then I could suggest "You know, a teleporter by that tree would be a great spot to port you up to that ledge back there"

I may be way off base, but thats got to be something of the truth.

exactly my point.




Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
&quot;I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!&quot;



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Re: Map Critiques.
Posted by Underdog on Thu Jul 28th at 7:43pm 2005


"exactly my point."

Which part, my being off base or the rest?




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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Re: Map Critiques.
Posted by rival on Thu Jul 28th at 7:47pm 2005


the part about having no experience but being able to understand what is needed and what not is needed in a HL2 environment. not everyone is so good at this, i think it is a skill.




Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
&quot;I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!&quot;



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Re: Map Critiques.
Posted by Underdog on Thu Jul 28th at 7:55pm 2005


I am still a bit confused about this but lets assume for the moment that I want to make a complete fool out of myself. How would I post a critique here? Some that I read looked a bit complex. I assume that just taking the screen shot is the first step, but how do I post them?




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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Re: Map Critiques.
Posted by rival on Thu Jul 28th at 8:25pm 2005


to post relevant critiques you must first play the map. find a map, download it, play it and then post your opinion either in its topic in the maps forum or where the map is in the maps section.


Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
&quot;I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!&quot;



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Re: Map Critiques.
Posted by Underdog on Thu Jul 28th at 8:56pm 2005


"Groans softly, and tries again"

How do I post screens. I figured that I'd have to acquire the map, then play it already. I didn't figure that I would have to use ESP to get the pointers from them after all.

Like I tried to say. Some of those critiques look professionally done. The pictures all line up and such. Whats the HTML codes? I assume that you need some sort of access to post screens.

Thats my question, not the actual acquiring of the maps.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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Re: Map Critiques.
Posted by Adam Hawkins on Thu Jul 28th at 9:01pm 2005


If you're unsure where to start with critiquing, try reviewing a few finished maps first. That should help train your eye for what's good and bad - which you can then use to give critical (and constructive) feedback on an incomplete map.

Don't look for just what's bad about a map - look for the aspects that could make it great with a few tweaks etc. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">




You Got To Get Through What You've Got To Go Through To Get What You Want But You Got To Know What You Want To Get Through What You Got To Go Through



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Re: Map Critiques.
Posted by Underdog on Thu Jul 28th at 9:09pm 2005


Reviews? what good is a review? The opportunity to alter anything significant has passed by that time. Besides, critiques are intended to be opinions, reviews would be less opinion and more certainty. What I am trying weakly to say is, a critique could lead to a better map before its released, a review would not help but in some future way. Also, I think to be certain enough to write a review would require a bit more skill than a simple critique.

I do however appreciate your confidence in me. I assume you thought that I could do a review. That says a lot for your attitude.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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Re: Map Critiques.
Posted by rival on Thu Jul 28th at 9:13pm 2005


this is what we mean by critique, giving opinions on a map to influence the creators future productions. as for screenshots from a critiquer, i have never seen it done but that is a good idea. if that is what you mean because i dont quite understand what you mean about 'posting screens'.




Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
&quot;I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!&quot;



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Re: Map Critiques.
Posted by Underdog on Thu Jul 28th at 9:16pm 2005


Then I feel we both need to wait for someone who knows. This thread is growing with replies not relevant to my inquiry.

No offense, I am just not learning "how". Perhaps someone will take mercy on us both, and either shoot us in the heads, or open them and insert the required knowledge. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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Re: Map Critiques.
Posted by rival on Thu Jul 28th at 9:24pm 2005


are we on the same wavelength about the word 'critique'?

cri?tique (kri-tek)
n.

  1. A critical review or commentary, especially one dealing with works of art or literature.
  2. A critical discussion of a specified topic.
  3. The art of criticism.

i understood your question as 'i want to know how to post constructive critism about a map with screenshots'

if i have misunderstood your inquiry then please rephrase.





Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
&quot;I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!&quot;



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Re: Map Critiques.
Posted by Underdog on Thu Jul 28th at 9:31pm 2005


How do you make these?

http://www.snarkpit.net/pits/orpheus/critiques/bocaburgers/index.html

I just chose this one at random cause it was one of the most recent. I have seen many others done, differently and similarly represented.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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Re: Map Critiques.
Posted by rival on Thu Jul 28th at 9:34pm 2005


go to http://www.ornj.net/

its a web album and on that website you can download it. putting it on the snarkpit though, ill try and figure that out just now.




Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
&quot;I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!&quot;




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