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Entrapment or not.
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 Re: Entrapment or not.
Posted by Underdog on Fri Aug 5th at 12:44am 2005

My first controversial attempt at a poll.

Recently on the F.M. radio, they had an article about Law enforcement posing as minors, in order to capture pedophiles on the net.

What are your opinions concerning "Entrapment"




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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 Re: Entrapment or not.
Posted by WarloK on Fri Aug 5th at 12:58am 2005

[EDIT]

I get what you're on about now, i think would agree with otzman. Pedo's shouldn't be around, they should put just as much effort into as they do on terrorsim investigations.





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 Re: Entrapment or not.
Posted by OtZman on Fri Aug 5th at 12:58am 2005

Voted 2, whatever it takes.



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 Re: Entrapment or not.
Posted by Crono on Fri Aug 5th at 1:01am 2005

This is a predicament. Because there's no solid way you can completely prove the person was going to do those intentions, however, you had probable cause. Now, if they act like they do with drug deals, then I think, it's unethical practice.

This is where they pressure the person and do not let up until they consent to buy whatever drug. I believe in some cases they threatened the individuals, just so they could walk around the corner and get arrested. THAT is not okay.

However, this situation is obviously different, since it is consent to have some sort of sexual relation, usually, with a minor. In fact, I believe the FBI (I think, it may be some other office) pays individuals to pose as minors online to set up busts.

It depends on the situation though.

However, on the subject: Some local news teams have been embodying this practice to catch pedophiles and other people. They lure them to some place and when they answer the door, BAM, news cameras and reporters. It's really bizarre actually, since the press can't do anything about it (if you can call them the press).

A friend of mine and I thought up this really funny situation. What if one news team set up this "sting" acting as the minor to lure a pedophile out, showing that these people exist; another news channel does the same thing from the adult side, as an expose on why you should not misbehave online, directed at minors. I'd love to see their faces as one news crew opens the door to confront ... another news crew.

We thought it'd be funny. Since this is the first attempt some of these news channels have ever taken to actually get a "story".

So, I'd say whatever way possible, but at times, people can jump to the conclusion without proof, which is equally as bad.


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: Entrapment or not.
Posted by Underdog on Fri Aug 5th at 1:08am 2005

My apologies to any country that my Poll makes no sense to. Its rather difficult to anticipate all countries viewpoints.

My personal opinion in a condensed answer. You cannot get into trouble, if you aren't doing anything questionable to begin with. There is no innocent way to be a pedophile. I do however believe that the laws are to strict under certain conditions. If you are a minor and are having sex with a minor, then you are minors having sex. If you were a minor but recently became an adult and are still having sex with the same minor, then you are not a pedophile just because the calendar says so. That is a gray area IMO.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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 Re: Entrapment or not.
Posted by WarloK on Fri Aug 5th at 1:24am 2005

Some people would argue that its not right. They would say you're encouraging pedophiles or even people who are not pedophiles to engage in these activities and then busting them for it.

Well i think if a person does fall into that trap, they should be convicted. If a person goes along with it, without realising that its a trap then that person is a potential pedophile.

I don't think jail is heavy enough for a pedophile, thats like convicting a man for having sex and thinking because he went to jail he won't have sex again. When people who are sick enough to be interstede in child porn get out of jail, that does'nt mean they're going to stop commiting these acts. I guess you could compare them to alchoholics, they know how bad it is for them but yet they just can't stop.

When these people get their hands on child porn they tend to want more, because they like the kick they get out of it. This will lead to them searching for more intense and voilent child porn, again because they get bored of the old kicks and need a newer one. When they have seen it all they are especially dangerous, because they can't go without that kick they get out of the act. This the basis of basically all serial killers and child molesters. They can't get the kick out of watching it, so they have to do it for themselves. The thing is, people like that don't stop after just one, the kick they get keeps them driving.

I think the policy on pedophiles is far to leanient, 12 years tops for having a few gig of child porn. That doesnt work, what do they think those people are going to do when they get out, mow the lawn? No, they will go back to commiting the acts they did before. The police don't even bother to check up on them ever so often, thats because they think the jail time has set them straight.

Oh dear, i've been dribbling for ages.
I definitly stand by the whatever it takes policy.




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 Re: Entrapment or not.
Posted by ReNo on Fri Aug 5th at 1:27am 2005

In a related note, where is the line drawn with paedophiles? For example, without meaning any offence to Madedog here, in the "eggs" thread he is discussing how he would like to get together with this 13 year old girl, while he is 17. If things work out for him, he could be an 18 year old going out with a 14 year old. Now whether or not you find that a wise idea, it is only a 4 year gap, but one is now an adult while the other is still a "child". Would this make him a paedophile? I've unwittingly pulled a 15 year old when I was 19 (she was at a party, looked older, and everybody else there was older - honest mistake) - does that make me a paedophile?

Anyways, I think entrapment is generally ok in these circumstances, but the concerns Crono points out are very valid.




Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net



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 Re: Entrapment or not.
Posted by WarloK on Fri Aug 5th at 1:50am 2005

I don't think it would make him a pedo Reno. Though pedophelia is sexual acts with children, pedophelia tends to be voilent. If Madedog was to pull this girl that would not make him a pedo because the girl is ok with it and is consenting.

I know many girls who go out with guys around 18 years of age and their does'nt seem to be any problem with that, well exept for the girls i like <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif"> . If that person was to rape the girl, it would be considered rape rather than pedophelia.

I do like to dribble dont i <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> .




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 Re: Entrapment or not.
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Fri Aug 5th at 3:45am 2005

I go with 2 only in this particular scenario, for all the aforementioned reasons.




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 Re: Entrapment or not.
Posted by NameWithHeld on Fri Aug 5th at 3:47am 2005

2 this time, 'cos in Tassie you have more of it than anywhere else (Just kidding)



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 Re: Entrapment or not.
Posted by Nickelplate on Fri Aug 5th at 3:56am 2005

Here is where I have a predicament.

I am a firm beleiver in "people most often deserve what happens to them" now, not always, but if a girl of 15 looks slutty enough to be mistaken for 19 and is hanging around with that crowd,And misleading ppl, she deservs to be screwed, and have nothing done about it.

Really, if a girl is dressed to sexually attract, then they deserve what thier choices lead to. This doesn't include rape, or stuff like that, but does include underage girls who "hook up" and then say that they were taken advantage of.




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 Re: Entrapment or not.
Posted by Hugh on Fri Aug 5th at 4:33am 2005

If the purported pedophile hits on the agent or whoever before the agent says they're underage, then they're just a pervert in general.

If the agent's like "omg I'm a 14-year old girl with huge titties, let's bone", then it'd be entrapment or whatever.

I probably sound lke a pedophile now, BUT OH WELL.



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 Re: Entrapment or not.
Posted by DrGlass on Fri Aug 5th at 7:38am 2005

I went with three.

If we allow a grey area for one thing, we open up doors that can hurt people. There is no excuse for grown people to go on the internet to find "prey" but if we allow the law to dictate when entrapment type activity is ok you may find yourself on the worng side of this new power.

What if the FBI went online and started asking people for mp3's? Or went to chat rooms and started giving out music then slapping jail time or fines on anyone who went along for the ride?

As much as we may hate one thing, its never a good idea to give the law that kind of power. The more rights we hand over (even if it is to stop pedophiles) the closer we get to a police state where they use our good will against us.

The problem is that if they outline how the law is to catch these people, the bad guys can find all the loop holes they need.




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 Re: Entrapment or not.
Posted by Underdog on Sat Aug 6th at 1:58am 2005

You know, I must have read through about 1,000 threads in this general forum and figured a topic of this type would be so big that few could leave it be for long. I am very disappointed in my first attempt at a poll. The dumb booby thread is 11 pages long. Most of it about a little girl. Perhaps my disappointment is not in myself.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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 Re: Entrapment or not.
Posted by ReNo on Sat Aug 6th at 2:21am 2005

I'm kinda taken aback it "died" so quickly too, but I guess its likely due to the fact nobody really has conflicting views about it. If you look at threads such as the ones on gay marriage or discussions about international relations you'll see that people are all for a healthy debate, but this has just been a bit of a clean wash of people willing to take any methods, within reason, to catch the paedophiles.




Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net



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 Re: Entrapment or not.
Posted by Underdog on Sat Aug 6th at 2:34am 2005

Perhaps we should have a poll on what topics to debate over?

I'd rather stay clear of a gay topic, but if it could remain civil I'd think about it. I'd personally rather have a thread where there is clear "good" and "bad" myself. Gay topic's tend to be to emotionally driven to go well for either side.

How about a good "crime and punishment" thread? Someone else pick a topic though. I seem to not do well when I do it.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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 Re: Entrapment or not.
Posted by ReNo on Sat Aug 6th at 2:44am 2005

But if there is a clear good and bad, then there tends to be very little room for debate as everybody sides for the "good".




Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net



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 Re: Entrapment or not.
Posted by Underdog on Sat Aug 6th at 3:03am 2005

I can side with the bad, convincingly.


There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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 Re: Entrapment or not.
Posted by Crono on Sat Aug 6th at 3:49am 2005

? quote:
If you look at threads such as the ones on gay marriage or discussions
about international relations you'll see that people are all for a
healthy debate


Mwahaha, my thread lives on!


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: Entrapment or not.
Posted by Madedog on Sat Aug 6th at 8:20am 2005

Btw... for your information.. on the "eggs" thread.. Isn't paedophilia sexual acts between adult and a "child"? Well, that way that would most certainly NOT make me a paedophile. I don't want to sleep with her :P I can wait until she's adult. I told you that already, i guess <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">



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