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Whatever happened to Orpheus?
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 Re: Whatever happened to Orpheus?
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Sat Sep 3rd at 10:34pm 2005

The reason this community is dying is because the HL2 mapping community is dying, it's as simple as that.

This is largely a consequence of improving technology and 'better graphics'. The very things that look great in pictures and make hardcore designers giddy are the same things that drive off the amateurs. HL2 has incredible textures that are really realistic, but are so realistic that they can't really be used outside of their designed purpose. Before you could interpret the textures in your own way and use ceilings for walls and etc whereas now it will look just wrong. With model props we can add incredible detail and complexity to areas, but it also requires modeling and texture knowledge to make your own. No longer can you make 'prefabs' and add your own custom detail to maps. These all combine to make maps all look similar and remove an important creative aspect to map making.

I've been saying this for f**king years to people who felt that the Unreal engine's unintuitive hollowing construction, the Doom3 engine's complex and restraining lighting system, or the upcoming Unreal3's superdetailed mesh 3d texture things were good ideas: all they do is shut out the beginning mapper. Source suffers from some of the same things, and add a tremendous loss of knowledgabe mappers to other engines because they viewed Source as not advanced enough and well look what we get.

Also, I haven't seen a single HL2 map reviewing site out there, no level of the week at PHL, no independent guy cranking out reviews, nothing. If you don't think Radium had a large impact on the HL mapping community then you are just silly. The TFC mapping community died the moment his TFC site was closed.

So there you have it, the glory days of mapping, custom content, and computer gaming are over. It's probably for the best if you go buy an Xbox 360 or something, get drunk, and argue with your friends about what weapons are best to tri-wield in Halo3 or something.





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 Re: Whatever happened to Orpheus?
Posted by Captain P on Sat Sep 3rd at 10:55pm 2005

Hmm... I think that's mostly true, the amount of work and the skillset required to make a distinct level is now beyond what most of us are willing to put in it. The fun is gone somewhat, the workload required has gotten larger and larger. It's becoming a bit too complex now to be only a mapper.

Luckily I learned to do textures and models back in the HL days so I'm starting to do some materials and learning how to compile models for HL2, but it surely doesn't speed up my mapping process and all that.

Something to keep things alive would be the combining of texture artists, modellers and mappers into one site, where everyone could benefit from each other. But those are plans and they need to be picked up by people.

Oh, bytheway, Minerva got released the other day and it gave me hope for custom HL2 maps. It was actually a really good play and maybe that inspires others to try to maintain that quality.
Also, there are being produced HL2 mods, and maybe it's now all moving more into team-work instead of being a single mapper to mainain this hobby...
But I surely can see this as a major reason to move on to other things in life.

I miss that simplicity, too. But I don't think I'll quit the scene. I enjoy most area's of game-design and see it as an opportunity to sharpen my overall skillset. If it then takes more time to finish a map, so be it. I didn't release a lot before anyway...
Heh, just can't stop here. Back in the HL days we wanted more realism and all that, and now that we have it we're drowning in it, loosing that grip on what it finally is all about: a fun map to play...



Create-ivity - a game development blog



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 Re: Whatever happened to Orpheus?
Posted by rival on Sat Sep 3rd at 11:55pm 2005

i have never mapped before in my life. back in feburary i just downloaded SDK, read a couple of tuts and tried my hand at a few SP. eventually i found this site and now im making a proper, official map. i love mapping for HL2, the workload is alot but its immensely satisfing when you create something really good.


Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
"I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!"



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 Re: Whatever happened to Orpheus?
Posted by Gollum on Sun Sep 4th at 2:50pm 2005

Hello everyone <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif"> I'm a sucker for nostalgia, and it's nice to be missed.

I am very much out of touch with the Snarkpit, its members, and indeed with games and mapping in general. I think it will stay that way.

I just don't have the time, energy or enthusiasm to rekindle my mapping fervour. I hope at least that I may start having LAN parties again, but at the moment I am barely playing games. Recently I enjoyed a spate of single player gaming, following the purchase of a new computer.

I'm trying to write a novel, and have some vague romantic notion of creating a heady life of self-employment, freedom and the thrill of creativity. Unfortunately it's not an easy thing to start. I feel that I can only sustain one major creative project at a time, so that's another reason not to map.

Besides, I would have to start all over again. The transition from HL1 to HL2 (or other recent games) means that I shift from guru to beginner. It would be hard enough to break out the old HL1 tools, which I had finally packed away with a mixture of regret and relief; to learn the complete, new, and larger toolset for HL2 would require much time.

On the other hand, don't rule me out <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif"> One day I might pop up again, mapping for some game (HL2? HL3? UT2007? It really doesn't matter). If I do, you can bet I will try to do something slightly crazy with my chosen game.

When I was around, this place always had a strong sense of cameraderie. It was full of interesting characters and talented mappers. I expect it still is, and though some of the old names -- such as myself -- have vanished, I hope that there is a new generation to continue where we left off.

I don't think that I will hang around here much. It was great to know you all, but I also recognise that the connection between us is fragile. We were brought together by a love of mapping, and it's artificial to preserve the connection after the mapping is over. Yet I miss the whole strange lot of you, so perhaps occasionally nostalgia will overcome my better judgement -- such as now.

If I could give a message (self-indulgently, pompously, but sincerely too) to the new generation, it would go something like this:

Map for the love of mapping. Revel in your creation, but learn to analyse its qualities objectively; Snarkpit members, especially the old timers, are invaluable to help you do this. The same will be true in other communities; you must seek them out.

Whilst you should always seek to gain greater understanding of your craft, don't restrict yourself to following sensible advice and reading the tutorials. Don't just build up a respectable, high quality, boring portfolio. Be inspired. Dream, and make your mapping an expression of dreams. Make something that excites you, something that is uniquely your creation; make something that nobody has ever made before. Make something that you can't wait to play with your friends.

In other words, make it fun. Get carried away with the madness of your mapping. The madness will sustain you. I know: it sustained me for five years on one great, vainglorious project. And if I may say so, the result was worth every moment. Yet the best part was making it.

Sometimes, when I was making gmdm2, I would think of a gameplay idea that excited me so much I would be laughing in front of my monitor. Suddenly I had too much energy to stay sitting; I'd pace or even prance around the room. Hell, I might do a little dance too. And I would have to show my friends, even though they barely understood what I was jibbering about.

Creativity is elusive. It is hardest to find when forced; I am learning this with my writing. But if you find it, hold on tight. Don't let it get away from you, whatever other people may say to disenchant your dream. It's your dream, be it silly, be it flawed, be it painful to fulfil. Follow it, and create something amazing.



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 Re: Whatever happened to Orpheus?
Posted by ReNo on Sun Sep 4th at 4:18pm 2005

Just about brought a tear to my eye mate, very inspiring <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> Great to see you back too, albeit fleetingly. Its nice that even though the initial reason that people visited the site has in many cases faded away, the place holds enough fond memories to remind them to make a return visit every once in a while.

Best of luck with your novel Gollum, keep us posted with your progress every once in a while <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">




Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net



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 Re: Whatever happened to Orpheus?
Posted by satchmo on Sun Sep 4th at 4:41pm 2005

? quote:
The madness will sustain you....


And it's sort of like the Ring in "Lord of the Ring". As your alias suggest, the Ring did sustain Gollum, but it also consumed him and drained his soul until he's nothing more than a shadow.

Mapping can sometimes do the same to a person. We'll all have to respect the power of the Map. Use it wisely, and we shall be ever so powerful. Use it carelessly, it'll suck the lives out of us.



"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



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 Re: Whatever happened to Orpheus?
Posted by Dr Brasso on Sun Sep 4th at 4:45pm 2005

***/// picks self off floor and places back in chair.....<img src=" SRC="images/smiles/rofl.gif">

man o man....hello mikey.....long time no see, and yes, youve been missed....i myself dont hang here as much, for many of the same reasons...its changed, and its quite nice to see one of the "oldies" get put back in the stack...<img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif"> hope life is good, you and yours are well, and yer getting everything youve worked for bud.... and we wont tell if you feel the urge to drop a few lines here mate, whenever you like......just say hi... <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">

Doc B...:dodgy:





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 Re: Whatever happened to Orpheus?
Posted by Gollum on Sun Sep 4th at 7:36pm 2005

Cheers all

Satchmo, you have a knack for analogy. I hope, however, that mapping did not have quite such a severe effect on me as the Ring had on Gollum. Addiction can be a good thing, though hard to control. If I can turn my writing into an addiction, then I will succeed effortlessly. No sign of that so far.

These are still the friendliest forums in Christendom; I may have to be disciplined to avoid checking them too often. When you're writing, it's very easy to find ways to distract yourself.

Anyway, I'll be around, at least from time to time.

PS. My current email is mike.hopley[at]gmail.com . Feel free, but swap that [at] for an @



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 Re: Whatever happened to Orpheus?
Posted by WarloK on Sun Sep 4th at 8:18pm 2005

EDIT: bad post





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 Re: Whatever happened to Orpheus?
Posted by Captain P on Sun Sep 4th at 8:33pm 2005

? quote:
When you're writing, it's very easy to find ways to distract yourself.


Sounds like mapping... <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">

Anyway, nice to see you back for today. Not that I was around a lot when you were, but hey, nice to see an 'old one' back anyway... hehe



Create-ivity - a game development blog



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 Re: Whatever happened to Orpheus?
Posted by French Toast on Sun Sep 4th at 8:57pm 2005

Geez Brasso, you're more and more distorting that picture of Jimmy Just don't take my picture of Freddie Mercury. I'm keeping him for myself.

Anyways. I started mapping, and made a fairly cool map for CS, that took me awhile and was used at LAN parties. It was a hell of a lot of fun, based of a Warhammer 40k table that me and my brother made. When it was finished, it still had a lot of bugs that took me forever towork out. However, following the rule of not posting your first map, I never really publicized it.

I was going to keep mapping, but one thing that has really stopped me is that I don't really find CS:S, or DM2 much fun anymore. I love Battlefield 2, and after playing it a lot, HL2 really doesn't seem that great smiley






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 Re: Whatever happened to Orpheus?
Posted by wil5on on Mon Sep 5th at 12:13pm 2005

Great to see you back here Gollum. Your map was most awesome. I doubt there will ever be something as ambitious and groundbreaking as that for Source, or in fact any future engine.

I had a time when I churned out a few maps for HL1. Those days of slacking off at school are long gone, now I put effort into academics I simply dont have time to map. I pride myself in my understanding of the science behind mapping, however. Concepts like cubemaps and visblocking seem to be beyond the grasp of so many, I just hope I can help the more artistic mappers out there understand the tools at their disposal.




&quot;If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?&quot;
- My yr11 Economics teacher



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 Re: Whatever happened to Orpheus?
Posted by keved on Mon Sep 5th at 12:46pm 2005

? quoting Yak_Fighter
I've been saying this for f**king years to people who felt that the Unreal engine's unintuitive hollowing construction, the Doom3 engine's complex and restraining lighting system, or the upcoming Unreal3's superdetailed mesh 3d texture things were good ideas: all they do is shut out the beginning mapper. Source suffers from some of the same things...

Also, I haven't seen a single HL2 map reviewing site out there, no level of the week at PHL, no independent guy cranking out reviews, nothing. If you don't think Radium had a large impact on the HL mapping community then you are just silly.

Good call, Yak. It takes forever to create good levels because of the increase in complexity and poly/etc budgets, the gap in the quality of finished levels is more pronounced than ever between those who are prepared to invest the time to create good levels and those who aren't, and there's no central location (like Radium for HL1) to showcase new levels & get the punters downloading them.

It's now getting on for a year after the release of the HL2 mapping tools so the "It's a new game...give it time" excuse doesn't wash anymore. I can't see the HL2 mapping scene picking up any time soon sadly, for HL2DM at least. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/sad.gif">





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 Re: Whatever happened to Orpheus?
Posted by Junkyard God on Mon Sep 5th at 1:21pm 2005

/me agrees sadly to keved

it's a shame but i think it's true that hl2 mapping won't be as huge.
unless some mods are released witch are huge hits in and outside of the hl2 mapping community to draw more designers to the source engine, but that's unlikely.




Hell, is an half-filled auditorium



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 Re: Whatever happened to Orpheus?
Posted by pepper on Tue Sep 6th at 8:00pm 2005

I have tried it more then once now, but source mapping just doesnt draw me to it, it isnt inspirering, remember the days that you could sit down and start with a simple cube and in a hour you had a nice room, nothing like you saw in hl.

To me, all hl2 maps look the same, the same destructive, boring theme. I lost my love for mapping in source, and that is why i only map for hl1.

As a guy wich name i forgot sung: music was my first love, music will be the last.

The same goes up for hl1 mapping to me....




RUST Gamedesign
pepper design

The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee.



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 Re: Whatever happened to Orpheus?
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Tue Sep 6th at 9:11pm 2005

? quoting BioPulse
/me agrees sadly to keved

it's a shame but i think it's true that hl2 mapping won't be as huge.
unless some mods are released witch are huge hits in and outside of the hl2 mapping community to draw more designers to the source engine, but that's unlikely.

*whispers* DOD:Source... if it ever comes out.




Some people are like slinkys...

They aren?t really good for anything, but you can't help but laugh when one tumbles down the stairs.



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 Re: Whatever happened to Orpheus?
Posted by Junkyard God on Tue Sep 6th at 9:44pm 2005

lol, asif that'll ever happen, people waiting for that will have given up on valve soon.

maybe some non-corporate mod, i think www.calibermod.com if it ever comes otu will have fans <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">




Hell, is an half-filled auditorium



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 Re: Whatever happened to Orpheus?
Posted by French Toast on Tue Sep 6th at 10:23pm 2005

DoD comes out this month and I'm damn well gonna buy it.

Instant LAN party hit, for shure.




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 Re: Whatever happened to Orpheus?
Posted by Nickelplate on Tue Sep 6th at 11:37pm 2005

? quoting French Toast
DoD comes out this month

"...september 2003" sounds kinda familiar. LOL.




I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



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 Re: Whatever happened to Orpheus?
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Wed Sep 7th at 12:54am 2005

? quoting Gollum
Cheers all

If I can turn my writing into an addiction, then I will succeed effortlessly. No sign of that so far.

Oh, god. Tell me about it! I almost missed your post because I wasn't following this thread. Nice to "see" you around.




Some people are like slinkys...

They aren?t really good for anything, but you can't help but laugh when one tumbles down the stairs.




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