I have a good idea and no-one cares
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Re: I have a good idea and no-one cares
Posted by WarloK on Tue Aug 30th at 9:55pm 2005


I'm really sick of people spitting on my ideas and throwing their pickles at me, no really. The problem is that i have a good idea but no-one seems to care. I thought maybe some people here could give me some feedback. So, at the risk of boring you i proceed.

My idea could change the way we think about evoloution. The idea is that we alter the human skin cells so that they convert sunlight into energy and sugars, or photosythisis to us nerds.

The idea is to take a human embryo in the earliest stages of skin developments. In these early stages there only a few thousand skin cells in the embryo. We work with a handful of these cells. By removing a chromosome from each of these cell nuclei. We may be able to replace this chromosome with a chromosome from a leaf cell. That chromosome might accepted. If it does then hopefully the information in that chromosome will make the cell produce the chlorofilm enzyme, this enzyme is vital in photosynthesis. If this works right then the chlorofilm will form chlorplast pockets in the cell cytoplasm. The skin cells would convert the sunlight into energy and sugars.

My other bit for this is the same exept we change the chromosome while its in the sperm cell and the egg cell, that way there is more chance of it being accepted.

If you have a knowledge of plant biology then you know that plants get proteins and sugars from photosythesis and they get vitimins and minerals from the soil beneath them. This would be the same with us humans. We would not have to eat as much, we could still get our vitimins and minerals with fruit, veg and milk.

Just think for a second. This would make humans evolve. The arrival of photosythesis would mean that we would not such big jaw muscles as we don't need to eat meat anymore. Less muscles means more space for the brain to expand.

I guess i might be wrong in some of it.

Please give me some feedback.





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Re: I have a good idea and no-one cares
Posted by French Toast on Tue Aug 30th at 10:00pm 2005


Yeah.



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Re: I have a good idea and no-one cares
Posted by Dark_Kilauea on Tue Aug 30th at 10:09pm 2005


You theory has many problems...
  1. Plant DNA and animal DNA weren't exactly supposed to mix
  2. Our whole mindset includes the idea of eating, if we don't, it's possible we could die just because we think we should, or we may go insane.
  3. I don't think you could mix the two and get a living organism out of it, the two organisms are just too unsimilar.
  4. There's more, but I'm just too lazy to post them.

Note: I'm not puttng you down with this post...

Until Later...



Dark_Kilauea
DVS Administration
http://www.dvstudio-production.com/



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Re: I have a good idea and no-one cares
Posted by mazemaster on Tue Aug 30th at 10:21pm 2005


Thats a cool thought, but the problem is that the chances of it working are about the same as the chances of fitting a camel through the head of a pin.





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Re: I have a good idea and no-one cares
Posted by BlisTer on Tue Aug 30th at 10:42pm 2005


i dont think the "leaf" cells will be accepted, but if you want in-depth discussions on this you should post this on a biogenetics forum.



These words are my diaries screaming out loud



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Re: I have a good idea and no-one cares
Posted by jake on Tue Aug 30th at 10:42pm 2005


? quote:
Thats a cool thought, but the problem is that the chances of it working are about the same as the chances of fitting a camel through the head of a pin.

It worked for triffids.





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Re: I have a good idea and no-one cares
Posted by Crapceeper on Tue Aug 30th at 11:34pm 2005


I like the idea, Warlock. Unfortunately I have to agree with the others. It's unlikley that one can combine human with botanic DNA. I never even heard of a case when they combined human with ape DNA (correct me if there is one in fact).

I don't even think man needs a bigger head; or more space for the brain. A regular human doesn't use his whole brain capacity at all. So I guess evolutioin will go for higher, more efficient brain usage instead of more space.



Never try to be perfect - just try it and make the best out of it



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Re: I have a good idea and no-one cares
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Tue Aug 30th at 11:36pm 2005


? quote:
We may be able to replace this chromosome with a chromosome from a leaf cell. That chromosome might accepted. If it does then hopefully the information in that chromosome will make the cell produce the chlorofilm enzyme, this enzyme is vital in photosynthesis. If this works right then the chlorofilm will form chlorplast pockets in the cell cytoplasm. The skin cells would convert the sunlight into energy and sugars.



Interesting notion, but I think right here is where this idea doesn't work out. I'm not a scientist but I'm guessing the chromosome wouldn't be accepted... and there would be no plant human hybrid.




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Re: I have a good idea and no-one cares
Posted by Windows 98 on Tue Aug 30th at 11:41pm 2005


It probably wouldn't work. BUT! if it did, it would be so kick ass. Too bad we couldn't enjoy it if it worked. I'm sure most of us are more evolved humwise then and early embryo just building skin cells.






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Re: I have a good idea and no-one cares
Posted by HAL 9000 AI computer on Tue Aug 30th at 11:43pm 2005


? quoting Dark_Kilauea
You theory has many problems...
  1. Plant DNA and animal DNA weren't exactly supposed to mix
  2. Our whole mindset includes the idea of eating, if we don't, it's possible we could die just because we think we should, or we may go insane.
  3. I don't think you could mix the two and get a living organism out of it, the two organisms are just too unsimilar.
  4. There's more, but I'm just too lazy to post them.


Note: I'm not puttng you down with this post...

Until Later...

I agree, plant and human DNA intermix is not compatible.

I aslo have more theories, but I have to leave now.





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Re: I have a good idea and no-one cares
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Tue Aug 30th at 11:58pm 2005


This is simple thermodynamics bud. It is certainly something I've always thought would be cool, but it wouldn't work in practice, even assuming there was no problem with engineering the organism in the first place.

look at it this way: The average solar flux at the earths surface is 500 W/m2 and the average efficiency of photosynthesis is ~4.5%. Your body needs on average 8368 kJ of energy each day (2000 calorie diet). If you were to lay in the sun ALL DAY, and we assume your exposed surface area to be 1 m2, then your body would receive 43200 kJ of energy, of which you could utilize 1944 kJ. So, by doing nothing except lying naked in the sun all day every day, you might possibly be able to meet 23% of your energy requirements! I must admit that this is a bit more significant than I had expected, but it's still ridiculous. There is a very good reason why animals are not photosynthetic. We simply cannot get enough energy out of the process to function. Leave it to the trees. they have MUCH higher surface area.

Reference: http://patzek.berkeley.edu/E11/Photosynthesis.pdf

Note that after a bit more reading I see that my estimate is likely to be wildly optimistic. Revising it by an order of magnitude seems appropriate, which brings us to 2.3% of you energy requirements being met by photosynthesis.




Some people are like slinkys...

They aren?t really good for anything, but you can't help but laugh when one tumbles down the stairs.



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Re: I have a good idea and no-one cares
Posted by Myrk- on Wed Aug 31st at 12:00am 2005


I think there are moral issues with firstly killing babies in thier embryo stage (stupid I know, but some people care) and mixing these dead babies with plants to create wierd skin that someday could be used to create super humans that recharge in sunlight... Crazy, but Hitler probably thought about that one too :P


-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-



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Re: I have a good idea and no-one cares
Posted by rs6 on Wed Aug 31st at 12:26am 2005


Photosythesis produces very little ATP (the main energy molecule in all living things) from the sun light. Humans produce something like 36 ATP for every 1 molecule of glucose. And this is still not enough, as our body has to ferment to make more energy when it runs out of oxygen. ALso ever notice why plants are so small, it becuase they evolved that way becuase of the lack of energy they create., If we depended on photosynthesis we would basicaly evolve into plants.

the whoel energey making proces is very complex. In humans it starts with Glycolysis Which basically turns glucose into pyruvate (aka pyruvic acid) using enzymes. Then comes the small intermedary stage, which turns the pyruvate into A substance called Co-enzyme A. Then the Co-enzyme A enters the mitochondria what is called the krebs cycle (that diagram also show the intermedary stage on top.)

NADH is produced from the krebs cycle and glycolisis and enter the mitochondria as well. NADH loses a proton and electron, The proton, or and postive hydrgen ion, goes to the inter membrane space of the motchodria, while the elctron jumps on the elctron transport chain. The electron travel though all the protein structures, casueing free Hydrogen ions to enter the intermembane space. Then when the elctron get to the end of the train it joins with an oxygen and a proton to creat a molecule of water. This cause a hydrongen imbalance between the innner mitcondira and the intermembrane space casuing hydrongen to be pumped back into the mitochodria insides, though the ATP sythase casuing a net of 36 ATP to be created.

Very complex.

plants are a little less complex pretty much they gain photons (packets of energy in the form of light) from the sun which bumps and electron to a higher orbital, which then shoots an elcetron done a plants electron chain( called the light dependent reactions). This creates a small amount of ATP, and some NADPHH. The NADPHH is used in the light independent reactions and creates glucose for the plants to use, and convert to energy.




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Re: I have a good idea and no-one cares
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Wed Aug 31st at 12:36am 2005


? quoting rs6
ALso ever notice why plants are so small, it becuase they evolved that way becuase of the lack of energy they create.

I'm not disputing your augment since you are basically agreeing with me in biological rather than physical terms, but this statement just made me laugh. Plants are small? What about tress, yo!




Some people are like slinkys...

They aren?t really good for anything, but you can't help but laugh when one tumbles down the stairs.



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Re: I have a good idea and no-one cares
Posted by Myrk- on Wed Aug 31st at 12:41am 2005


I think he means thin. In comparison we are blobs with a few big branches. Trees are 1 big branch (1 vien and 1 artery) which splits off many times till the leaves, which are only a cell or 2 thick. The size to density ratio is much larger with trees than humans.


-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-



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Re: I have a good idea and no-one cares
Posted by Nickelplate on Wed Aug 31st at 1:48am 2005


A few Problems here:

  1. All our cells would have cell walls. This would cause rigidity in ALL tissues including things like our hearts and lungs, which IMHO need to be soft and pliable, not made of wood. Things like our pupils, skin, eardrums, tongue wouldn't work correctly, leaving us only with smell.

    IF anyone evolved without cell walls, thier cells would burst from turgur pressure from the engorged chlorophyll pockets (our skin would ooze all the time and the Photosynthesis would do us no good.)
  2. Only the outermost layers of skin cells would get sun and they're mostly dead cells anyhow.
  3. We would still have to eat meat and CANNIBALISE other plants to get all the nutrients that the human body needs.
  4. with the added rigidity to our structure, erections would ALWAYS last more than 4 hours, so doctors' phones would be ringin' off the hook! (you know, from that commercial on TV)
  5. Everyone would be green.



I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



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Re: I have a good idea and no-one cares
Posted by Crono on Wed Aug 31st at 2:36am 2005


Tracer, the daily diet being 2,000 Calories would make your energy consumption around 8,368.2 kJ, since, in nutrition when they say "Calorie" they're saying kilocalorie. I don't think that'll make your calculations as "optimistic".

But, that doesn't matter anyway, since your body doesn't need pure energy. It needs specific nutrients.

On a related note though, a friend of mine was telling me about a paper he read, through a news article, I think, about some experiments done in the 60s regarding digestion in relation to lifespan. This scientist used mice, he completely controlled their diet and only fed them the absolute essentials that their bodies needed. Of course changing whatever the nutrient was and tailoring each "meal" specifically for what they needed then and there. Basically, it prolonged their lives and the mice lived for a little over 20 years. They think it was because the body wasn't doing the constant work of digestion. Apparently the scientist tried it on himself as well and said the worst thing was, for the first year he was hungry all the time ... he didn't actually need food, his body had all the nutrients it needed, he was healthy and everything. It's actually very similar to what certain sections of the army do. They give specific rations based on your detail (at least the friend I talked to who was part of this) what eventually happened is they burned off all of what they ate. So, they basically stopped going number 2. There was no waste besides urine (Because you always drink more water then you need to stay hydrated)

I'm done now.



Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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Re: I have a good idea and no-one cares
Posted by French Toast on Wed Aug 31st at 2:40am 2005


That's pretty cool!

Taking craps hurt sometimes smiley




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Re: I have a good idea and no-one cares
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Wed Aug 31st at 3:25am 2005


I dunno... no more number 2 means no more anal gratification...

...

Someones gonna jump all over that statment I just know it.




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Re: I have a good idea and no-one cares
Posted by Nickelplate on Wed Aug 31st at 3:29am 2005


? quoting Addicted to Morphine
I dunno... no more number 2 means no more anal gratification...

...

Someones gonna jump all over that statment I just know it.

You know that's Freud's second stage of psychosexual development in children. You're absolutely right, Addicted to Morphine. Not the response you were expecting from grumpy ol' nickelplate was it?




I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com




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