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Why do YOU think its boring around here?
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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Underdog on Sat Oct 15th at 8:33pm 2005

Snarkpit today isn't the same place as Snarkpit of lore, why?

Course, you may see it better today or worse, but it is different, Why?




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Sat Oct 15th at 8:49pm 2005

I voted 4, but I think it's a combination of 1 and 4.

The oldtimers set the standard and led by example. I personally only caught the end of Orpheus' tenure here, and never got a chance to hang around gwil or others, but immediately upon joining I got the sense that SP was a unique forum. People took the time to write out large paragraphs describing how they felt. They offered generous criticism and gave the most valuable commodity (time) freely.

There are certainly members of this group that I respect who are still here. People like ReNo and Crono and many others. But at the same time there is an influx of new faces and with so many at once the tone of the forums has changed. I hope that they "find their groove" as you put it, and move into the realm of mature dialogue.




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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Underdog on Sat Oct 15th at 9:04pm 2005

I personally think its a combination of things, very hard to narrow down to a specific vote. Even though I posted this thread it was difficult for me to actually post 6 legitimate things to vote upon.

Personally I feel its different for:

  • HL1 is different than HL2. Better in many aspects.
  • The oldtimers left. They left for many reasons but I feel specifically because the flavor of the new arrivals told them it was time to leave.
  • The new arrivals are not of the same caliber. Not bad, just different. The most vocal of the newer members are not leaders like the old members whom are either quiet, or retired.
  • Many of the newer members are immature. Many of the old members arrived immature and grew out of it. Hopefully the same will occur again.
  • Many of the old members simple out grew Snarkpit. I feel they will return once they discover that there is no true outgrowth. Its simply a case of mistaken perceptions. Many of the old members were old enough to have a real life and be here. Those that think they out grew Snarkpit, will realize their mistake and return.... Eventually.
  • In a few cases, I can think of at least one, the new members actually made it unpleasant enough to not remain. Battling for ones old place in the hierarchy is not fun for most individuals.

I voted "Other"




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Campaignjunkie on Sat Oct 15th at 9:29pm 2005

5. If you look around other mapping communities, you'll notice that they're generally not that strong either. HL2 content just takes more time because of higher standards - but whether those standards are reasonable or rational is another story entirely. For example, I see people complain about Minerva because it didn't have new weapons, which doesn't really make any sense, but that's just how the map/mod community is now.




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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Captain P on Sat Oct 15th at 9:41pm 2005

I think Snarkpit has had it's worst time now. A few months ago, a lot of old-timers left more or less, but there's some new influx and I think it's going up again. HL2 just changed much more than we expected, and it's different indeed though not necessarily worse. It takes time to adjust and some people are just not comfortable with the way level-design changes, while others are. Though I do think HL2 mapping is less popular than HL mapping, because it's not so new anymore and it costs much more time to get a quality map done.



Create-ivity - a game development blog



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Underdog on Sat Oct 15th at 9:48pm 2005

? quoting Captain P
Though I do think HL2 mapping is less popular than HL mapping, because it's not so new anymore and it costs much more time to get a quality map done.

I disagree. A map, if its content reflects 100% of the authors ability to produce is exactly the same as HL1 was. What is different is the people judging the maps. I see harsh words where none should exist. People forget what it was like when they were just beginning. People also have a horrible habit of comparing works from one author to the next. BAD, very bad.

If the mindset now, was what it was in Snarkpits peak, then the mapping would reflect this. I see no critiques. I see criticism, without basis. I see homages paid when they are due, but sometimes because there is a name associated with the map.

If we would get back to basics. Promote basic mapping again then Snarkpit would approach its roots once more.

Ask yourselves this, "when was the last time you took a total newbie and helped them with no though as to any return on your investments"? I have seen very little or none of this in recent months.

Snarkpit lost something it may find difficult to recapture. This much I know for sure. The return will not happen till you admit its missing.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by azelito on Sat Oct 15th at 9:53pm 2005

? quote:
5. If you look around other mapping communities, you'll notice that they're generally not that strong either. HL2 content just takes more time because of higher standards - but whether those standards are reasonable or rational is another story entirely. For example, I see people complain about Minerva because it didn't have new weapons, which doesn't really make any sense, but that's just how the map/mod community is now.

I fully agree. A bit of the mapping community died with HL2, sadly.



"Azelito, stop being a f**king bitch. All I see you do is complain and insult people in your recent posts. We don't care, go find a razor you emo pansy..." -Windows98



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Madedog on Sat Oct 15th at 9:53pm 2005

I think it's the newcomers who cannot get their feet down.
And ofcourse, the old ones gone <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/sad.gif">

Oh well, we'll live <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">



HL2 tutorials 'n' stuff: http://madedog.pri.ee
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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Captain P on Sat Oct 15th at 10:08pm 2005

? quote:
I disagree. A map, if its content reflects 100% of the authors ability to produce is exactly the same as HL1 was.


Add the extensive model usage, the custom material system, and the fact that most HL2 content is already now feeling overused or uninspiring, then I think we can safely conclude quality HL2 maps take more time.

I agree that we should be less harsh and more constructive, maybe that's what got lost... Not that I was around a lot in Snarkpit's top days, but hey, we could do it again...



Create-ivity - a game development blog



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Underdog on Sat Oct 15th at 10:33pm 2005

? quoting Captain P

? quote:
I disagree. A map, if its content reflects 100% of the authors ability to produce is exactly the same as HL1 was.



Add the extensive model usage, the custom material system, and the fact that most HL2 content is already now feeling overused or uninspiring, then I think we can safely conclude quality HL2 maps take more time.


You seem to have misunderstood my intent. I did not claim that its the same degree of difficulty when producing the HL2 maps. What I meant was, if the author gives 100% of their ability in creating the map then they deserve 100% of your respect for doing so.

If say the author has 3 months experience, and produces a map worthy of a 3 month author, you cannot compare them to a vet with years under their belt.

THATS whats been lost.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Underdog on Sat Oct 15th at 11:58pm 2005

It may be only a symptom but look at this thread. A topic of this nature should at the very least be mildly interesting to everyone who logs on yet,...

Something was definitely lost.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Sun Oct 16th at 12:00am 2005

It's been less than 3 and a half hours... many members of the community have yet to even see this thread. While perhaps this thread's lukewarm reception is indicative of a current trend, I think its more a function of time.




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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Gaara on Sun Oct 16th at 12:17am 2005

I voted 3. Goddamed newcomers.


Reckless disregard for childrens well being, women and nothing but utter contempt for other cultures.



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Nickelplate on Sun Oct 16th at 1:03am 2005

It's a mix between 1 and 4... I think that most of the newcomers don't even really post...

I think HL was easier to map for and came about in a time when less people were into computer games. Also the age group that bought HL is very different from the group that buys HL2. we have people who were in Elementary school during HL who are playing HL2 and joining the Snarkpit.

It's about a lack of maturity and a lack of knowledge of basic internet etiquite. Instead of becoming a member, and posting your mapping questions, people join and immediatly use thier thread priviledges to make post with links to stuff that makes eternal popups and stuff that brings up tubgirl or some crap... Sure they think it's funny, but it's ruining a community that was one of, if not the best for HL mapping and discussion.

The people who were in highschool and middle school during the times of HL are now in college and may not have enough time to devote to SP as do the new generation, who is tsill in highschool or middleschool.

Also, our URL changed to .net and probably lost some ppl in the process. (dang it c**ktagone!)




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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Underdog on Sun Oct 16th at 1:45am 2005

When all this is done, we'll all have a group hug and toast the good 'ol days.

? posted by Addicted to Morphine
It's been less than 3 and a half hours... many members of the community have yet to even see this thread. While perhaps this thread's lukewarm reception is indicative of a current trend, I think its more a function of time.

I'd agree with you except, it was posted during the highpoint of today, not the low side.

Sure, its probably just me whining, but...

(goes and gets a tissue)




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by FatStrings on Sun Oct 16th at 2:12am 2005

4
im fairly new and in a lot of cases i dont feel like i can put worthwhile input
but im working on that




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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Underdog on Sun Oct 16th at 3:25am 2005

BTW, who voted the other, "Other" besides myself?

For the record. I'd like to say that I meant no offense to any of the new members about the different caliber comment. I personally have no complaints about anyone thus far that I have met here. I have some reservations about a few, but no complaints. My comment basically stated that I felt that the older members set a standard that none, or damned few now maintain. In other words, there are few if any real leaders left. Many vocal members but none I'd follow into a knife fight as they say.

With that said (and I bet it was more than I should have) g'nite to you all. Its time for this fella to go to bed.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Agent Smith on Sun Oct 16th at 3:34am 2005

What I've found to be a major hinderance is the fact that you are no longer able to pull textures from various mods together into one map. I'd always take stuff from cs, dod, ts, and other custom wads and put them together into one map. The whole thing about not being allowed to use cs:s textures in anything outside of cs is bulls**t. Particularly when textures are so much harder to make with the new engine. Thats what has hindered my mapping. The HL2 textures are already out of date and over-used.



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Underdog on Sun Oct 16th at 4:11am 2005

? quoting Agent Smith
What I've found to be a major hinderance is the fact that you are no longer able to pull textures from various mods together into one map. I'd always take stuff from cs, dod, ts, and other custom wads and put them together into one map. The whole thing about not being allowed to use cs:s textures in anything outside of cs is bulls**t. Particularly when textures are so much harder to make with the new engine. Thats what has hindered my mapping. The HL2 textures are already out of date and over-used.

I also disagree with this as well. No offense to Mr. Smith but the true artists of HL1 took what they had and still created originality. Creation is exactly that. Pulling the art out of a chunk of rock/stone or just plain s**t. I know you are looking at me like "What the f**k does he know" but I am here to tell you that my maps folder for HL1 measured in the gigs. I saw and played everything to come down the pike and some of my favorites were invariably stock HL1 textured maps. Just because a texture says floor, doesn't mean it has to be used that way. Same with any other texture set. If you can get what you want out of a machine gun texture, by all means use the damned thing.

Anyway, being uncreative and blaming your texture choices is a poor excuse.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by wil5on on Sun Oct 16th at 4:40am 2005

I think its just because HL2 is so new, its capabilities arent yet known. HL1 editing was all about seeing how far the old engine could be pushed. Also, HL1 could run on pretty much anyones computer by 2002 or so, which helped. Steam probably has something to do with it as well, but then again, it shouldnt be so much of a problem when we all have over a gig of ram.

Still, it was nice when Hammer was a standalone program.




&quot;If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?&quot;
- My yr11 Economics teacher




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