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Why do YOU think its boring around here?
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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Crono on Sun Oct 16th at 4:59am 2005

I don't have over a gig of ram. I have half, in fact.

HL2 is still REALLY new. Half the people here didn't own HL1 with in the first two years of it coming out ... hl2 hasn't been out for a year yet.

There's been no good community made mods yet. (If you remember, CS took awhile to make "the scene" ... and what about dod? ... ts?)

The point is it took time. It only seems like hl2 is a waste right now because A) everyone was used to owning up and controlling the previous engine. B) You have been waiting for hl2 since you got your hands on hl1 ... which builds expectations ... which can ruin anything. C) It's harder to do. Big deal? HL1 still exists, you know. If you prefer it, map/mod for that. I'm sure the engine could be tweaked even more.


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Agent Smith on Sun Oct 16th at 5:52am 2005

Perhaps you should check out my HL1 work before you accuse me of being uncreative Underdog. I've produced some of this communities most unique maps over the last couple of years. I like to work with as much content as I can, because it gives me the most options when creating a map. A combination of various textures provides a different look and feel to the stock set, which is always recognisable.

And yes, you should attempt some mapping before commenting on how easy or hard it is. That has been my major beef with the mapping community that has developed since the release of HL2. A bunch of newbs come in and tell everyone how its supposed to be done, without ever contributing content themselves.

And I have to ask whether you measured the worth of the HL1 map by its gameplay or by its aesthetic qualities. I've seen plenty of HL1 and 2 maps that play great but are as ugly as sin through poor construction and texturing, as well as the reverse.

Also by locking much of the content within its specific mod, Valve isn't helping a large portion of the community. It was the ability to mix and match textures, models and sounds that gave rise to many of the best maps produced. Not everyone has access to a texture artist or modeller, or the time to make such content themselves.

No offence taken.



Ham and Jam Contributor
http://www.hamandjam.org

'Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!'



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by BlisTer on Sun Oct 16th at 6:19am 2005

? quoting Underdog
good 'ol days.


if you were here in the good old days, why did you lurk so long and only signed up during the big HL2 influx ?

On topic: i think there are 2 seperate issues: 1)our community 2)HL2.

1)
-It's not that every newcomers' words are painful to read (guys like FatStrings, jake, gaara, ... are nice), but a few ruin a lot. The difficulty is that snarkpit, being a nice and openminded community, has a hard time imposing measures. I liked the temporary ban that was imposed on some hard-learners when they first came here. They grew into mature nice guys. (e.g. Dark).

-you can't expect the vets to comment on every map. The way it usually goes, and as i too learned it, is that they only start commenting when they partly like (aspects of) it. So even if they're harsh, it's actually a "compliment". For a review, they have to see something special in it. Or you have to be friends with them.. /2cents

2)
I follow Wil5on and Crono's opinions on this. HL1 mapping was fun because you had a goal: making something special by pushing the limits. HL2 mapping is "limitless" and thus poses no feeling of achievement for most. On the contrary, they see other ppl's work and get frustrated, saying it's too much work.




These words are my diaries screaming out loud



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by wil5on on Sun Oct 16th at 7:18am 2005

? quoting Crono
I don't have over a gig of ram. I have half, in fact.

So do I. And because of this, it takes a while for hammer to load on our machines, its slow browsing textures, compared with 3.5. 3.5 would behave similarly on a minimum spec machine (around the 133mhz/32mb mark). Once hardware gets to the stage where you can load up hammer in less than a few seconds, browse textures smoothly, and compile/run small test maps from hammer with few ingame problems, HL2 mapping will be what HL1 mapping was at its peak: something you could do all day without being distracted by your computer slowing down.




"If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?"
- My yr11 Economics teacher



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by SpoolE on Sun Oct 16th at 8:26am 2005

I said that the new comers suck :P Because Im a new comer, and I suck!



I would love to change the world, But they would'nt give me the source code.



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by SpoolE on Sun Oct 16th at 9:38am 2005

I dont think this place is boring though <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> I just wish it had a shout-box. That would make such a diffrence! You can get shout box scripts for PHP free, anyway! Just look at www.twhl.co.za . It has a shout-box. They are damb nice things to have.



I would love to change the world, But they would'nt give me the source code.



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Andrei on Sun Oct 16th at 10:10am 2005

I kinda miss PFL's constant flamewars though. And the n00bs. They were kinda funny <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif"> .




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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by SpoolE on Sun Oct 16th at 10:59am 2005

Hehe! Dont worry, I am certainly gonna fill in the place-holder for n00b :P



I would love to change the world, But they would'nt give me the source code.



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Pegs on Sun Oct 16th at 11:13am 2005

Mix between 1 and 5 i think.... i mean 1 is kinda obvious. but because the quality in HL2 mapping is so much harder and not realy as enjoyable to do. most people have lost intrest. im just using this forum as a forum... not realy as a mapping forum. if you get what i mean..




Yes, My spelling is still terrible!



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Andrei on Sun Oct 16th at 11:28am 2005

Indeed. HL2 mapping is much tougher than HL1 mapping. Also HL2 mapping is definitely not for lazy people since with the olde HL you could make something cool with relative ease, high-detail burshwork being out of the question.



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by fishy on Sun Oct 16th at 12:01pm 2005

i voted 'other', because you're question assumes that everyone finds it boring here. if it made me bored, i wouldn't be here, simple as that.




i eat paint



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by SpoolE on Sun Oct 16th at 12:20pm 2005

Agreed! Because of HL2's engine you are expected to spend 5 hours on 1 tiny little room detailing it.



I would love to change the world, But they would'nt give me the source code.



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Underdog on Sun Oct 16th at 12:32pm 2005

? quoting Agent Smith

Perhaps you should check out my HL1 work before you accuse me of being uncreative Underdog.

If you made any maps for HL1, I had them. If they were as well constructed as you think, I knew it as well.

? quoting Agent Smith

And yes, you should attempt some mapping before commenting on how easy or hard it is.

Same question that I propose to Mr. Blister. Post an HL1 related mapping question and see if I do not answer it satisfactorily enough to satisfy you.

? quoting Agent Smith

And I have to ask whether you measured the worth of the HL1 map by its gameplay or by its aesthetic qualities. I've seen plenty of HL1 and 2 maps that play great but are as ugly as sin through poor construction and texturing, as well as the reverse.

I consider any map well made if it's within the best of the creators ability to produce. I have seen maps so ugly that you wonder how it compiled successfully yet played superb. I have seen maps aesthetically beautiful that play like a stone through a window. I measure creativity by my own standards, and do not seek counsel from anyone to verify them as fair or not.

? quoting Agent Smith

No offence taken.

Nor, intended.


? quoting BlisTer

if you were here in the good old days, why did you lurk so long and only signed up during the big HL2 influx ?

I realize that this is a Snarkpit related question, but why do you assume that thats all there is to it? What makes you think that I have not been, nor am active elsewhere? Post me an HL1 map editing question and see if I cannot answer it adequately and see exactly how much knowledge about the HL1 engine I do not possess.

? quoting Andrei
I kinda miss PFL's constant flamewars though.

Which reminds me. We all need to take a moment to mourn a lost informational source. Prefabland has apparently died. I will miss its uniqueness. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/sad.gif"> It seems that PFL went the direction of a lot of other HL1 related websites. Lurkers Lair and the original Wavelength among them.

? quoting fishy
i voted 'other', because you're question assumes that everyone finds it boring here. if it made me bored, i wouldn't be here, simple as that.


You are here for reasons unique to yourself. Why that is is beyond me but its not exactly unpleasant either.I find your disposition entertaining. I come here also for reasons that are my own. Anonymity among them. I assume nothing BTW. I post questions that best suit MY intent, not yours. If I assumed anything it was, why you do not post threads of your own to be disrupted instead of the other way around every time you log on. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Naklajat on Sun Oct 16th at 12:56pm 2005

I haven't been around for quite a while, but I do remember this site being more interesting 'back in the day,' when i was a noob. I think its somewhat of a combination of #1 and #4, but moreso 1 because if some of the vets were around or posting more often I think they would set an example for the newcomers. I think though, that if your favorite 'hang-out' becomes a place where you have to keep the new kids on the block (lots of them) in line it becomes an unenjoyable place to be. With the large influx of new members from HL2 and the distribution of the SDK through Steam, lots of people who had no idea what it takes to make a real map joined up. Nobody told me I could make maps for HL1, I found out because I was interested. With Valve releasing the SDK on Steam and announcing "j00 can maek maps now!!1" I think the average caliber of 'mappers' fell. But since it takes dedication to make 'real' maps, I think the newcomers with potential will 'fall into their groove,' and the noobs who call themselves mappers because they made an unlit killbox will lose interest (eventually).

/rambling2cents

Edit: And just as a point of interest, I have released one map, finished maybe three, three and a half, abandoned too many to count, and am currently working on two. This is how I think beginning mappers should do it, don't release every killbox you fast-compile. The one map I've released isn't on this site because its nothing particularly interesting, complicated, or beautiful, or even mildly attractive.



=o



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Agent Smith on Sun Oct 16th at 1:22pm 2005

Baron, if it ain't a killbox, post it on up. It doesn't matter if the map isn't the best ever made. Even if its only average, any commentary you might get is always invaluable.

In fact I had a trip down memory lane when the archived Pit of yester year was up on the forums. It had my first release in the reviews. A 3 out of 10, reviewed by Mikee (Champion reviewer from way back when), with the comment that it wasn't that good, but at least it wasn't a killbox. I had the unfortunate misfortune of naming it after a map that already existed (which I didn't know about at the time), and Mikee said it essentially wasn't worth replacing the other. A bit of a kick in the crotch, but my next map Blizzard did really well.



Ham and Jam Contributor
http://www.hamandjam.org

'Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!'



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by fishy on Sun Oct 16th at 1:39pm 2005

? quoting Underdog

? quoting fishy
i voted 'other', because you're question assumes that everyone finds it boring here. if it made me bored, i wouldn't be here, simple as that.


You are here for reasons unique to yourself. Why that is is beyond me but its not exactly unpleasant either.

you find it hard to understand that i would do something for my own reasons? were you in the army, by any chance?

? quote:

I find your disposition entertaining. I come here also for reasons that are my own. Anonymity among them.

i feel i should crack a joke here, by i don't like the idea of being type cast.

? quote:

I assume nothing BTW. I post questions that best suit MY intent, not yours.

"Why do YOU think its boring around here?"

well, even if you personally don't make any assumptions, your question certainly does.

If I assumed anything it was, why you do not post threads of your own to be disrupted instead of the other way around every time you log on.

i didn't realise that answering a question set in a thread title was being disruptive.

and as this is a primarily a mapping forum, i tend to lean towards using it as such, which is possibly reflected with my 'new threads started' being lower than my 'editing questions solved' stats.

if this post is seen by you as further evidence of my disruptive ways, then i suppose i can live with that.




i eat paint



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Andrei on Sun Oct 16th at 1:40pm 2005

? quote:
Baron, if it ain't a killbox, post it on up.


And even if it is, post it up. I'll give it an impartial and encouraging review like this one http://www.snarkpit.net/features.php?page=reviews&id=90 <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/evilgrin.gif">.




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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Underdog on Sun Oct 16th at 1:46pm 2005

You're alright Fishy. I personally do not care if its reciprocated or not.

If "How" I post questions is not to your liking, then the answer is obvious. Chose only the ones that fit your viewpoint on "Proper" and leave the rest alone. There is no law that states "Fishy must reply here"

It might bring your post count down but, perhaps thats not a concern either.

If you really find anything I type objectionable in any way, thats alright to. You'll get over it... Someday.

I would advise though, stop nitpicking. It doesn't suit you.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by fishy on Sun Oct 16th at 1:59pm 2005

i don't find it objectionable. like i say, i was only replying to the thread topic. there's no law that says i can't do that either. in these times of political correctness, someone needs to play the devils advocate. an oldie like you must appreciate that. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">




i eat paint



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 Re: Why do YOU think its boring around here?
Posted by Underdog on Sun Oct 16th at 2:17pm 2005

? quoting fishy
an oldie like you must appreciate that.

Sadly, I know all to well. Thankyou for putting me in my place, and bring prespective to this thread.

I stand corrected.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.




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