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U.S. Passport
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 Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Underdog on Mon Oct 31st at 3:56am 2005

Sadly, I have never walked away from any confrontation online and felt vindicated. Even when I am correct. Somehow in the back of my mind I know that the other person never did see things like I intended them too. I do not mean that I failed to convince them. I mean that they simply do not see it as clearly as I do.

This feeling doesn't alter whether I am right or wrong because somehow conversing via the net always leaves a portion of the communication process missing.

Thats my primary reason for never arguing. If I even think the discussion is faltering, or leading toward a confrontation I back off. There simply is no way to win once one or the other parties gets all fuzzle headed.

Oft times is purely a lack of basic comprehension that does it. Sometimes its culteral. Sometimes its even education, or the lack of one but once anger kicks in, the discussion is lost. To all involved.





There is no history until something happens, then there is.



Quote
 Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Nickelplate on Mon Oct 31st at 3:58am 2005

"Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics: even if you win, You're still retarded..."

But really I agree with Morphine. It's good to know WHY you beleive something.




I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



Quote
 Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Mon Oct 31st at 4:03am 2005

? quoting Underdog:
Sadly, I have never walked away from any confrontation online and felt vindicated. Even when I am correct. Somehow in the back of my mind I know that the other person never did see things like I intended them too. I do not mean that I failed to convince them. I mean that they simply do not see it as clearly as I do.



My point is that the benefits of the discussion come during the formulation of your position. When you have to truly sit down and think about what you believe in and why.

For me, vindication doesn't often come into it. I don't think I've ever changed someone's mind and I don't expect to. But sometimes I change my own mind (ie my initial reaction) when I first sit down and think the issue through.




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 Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Underdog on Mon Oct 31st at 4:05am 2005

I know I have said this before, but perhaps not here. Please do not use the "retarded" reference to illustrate your point.

I have family with downs and its a touchy subject.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



Quote
 Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Crono on Mon Oct 31st at 4:07am 2005

Primary reason for never arguing? Wtf ... you have a reason not to argue? Fooled me.

You just don't get it do you? There is no "winning" it's a goddamn discussion. Maybe that's why you're butting heads with so many members so often.

It isn't a lack of comprehension on their part. Reading this thread, specifically, I can see that you, Underdog, are the one that is not comprehending the others points.

You gagged on words like, "wrong", as if it were some definite ending argument or something. Another thing I noticed is you automatically jumped to it being "personal" when no one attacked you ... period. If anything you were calling your fellow debaters intellectual unequal to yourself.

Also, if you want your points and posts to be more convincing or ... coherent. Proof read for grammatical mistakes.

Take this with a grain of salt if you like. Ignore it if you want. But it is an objective observation.

[update]
Morphine, exactly.


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Underdog on Mon Oct 31st at 4:13am 2005

...anyway.



There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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 Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Nickelplate on Mon Oct 31st at 4:14am 2005

? quoting Underdog
I know I have said this before, but perhaps not here. Please do not use the "retarded" reference to illustrate your point.

I have family with downs and its a touchy subject.

It shouldn't be that touchy a subject. I've got some family with mental disorders, and they're like any other person in the fact that they have a sense of humor and can take a joke.

BTW. downs sucks...

ALSO, crono. I agree, that is why we present opposing sides of mostly everything and we still come out of each thread happy and not pissed at eachother. because we realize that its not a peronal insult to be disagreed with. It's an opportunity to talk with somene and debate, not to fight.




I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



Quote
 Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Underdog on Mon Oct 31st at 4:21am 2005

? quote:

? quoting Underdog
I know I have said this before, but perhaps not here. Please do not use the "retarded" reference to illustrate your point.

I have family with downs and its a touchy subject.

It shouldn't be that touchy a subject. I've got some family with mental disorders, and they're like any other person in the fact that they have a sense of humor and can take a joke.

BTW. downs sucks...

ALSO, crono. I agree, that is why we present opposing sides of mostly everything and we still come out of each thread happy and not pissed at eachother. because we realize that its not a peronal insult to be disagreed with. It's an opportunity to talk with somene and debate, not to fight.



And you guys say that I lack comprehension?
The comment you made wasn't a joke. It was a blatant stick in the eye to all people with downs.
Secondly, this isn't a majority rules community. Just because many/all fail to comprehend my point when I made one doesn't reduce it to something less acceptable.

As I said.... "anyway"

Can we move along before we start having a show of hands on who agrees with whom. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/sad.gif">



There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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 Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Crono on Mon Oct 31st at 4:24am 2005

? quoting Silence of the Lambs
It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again.


Yes. I agree, Nickel.


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Nickelplate on Mon Oct 31st at 4:29am 2005

I'm glad you know what I meant. because I needed someone to tell me what I meant when I said something.

Is there anything else I meant when I said something? anything I wouldnt know because I said it?

kthx




I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



Quote
 Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Underdog on Mon Oct 31st at 4:41am 2005

With the herding instinct you guys display, I almost imagine that you were picked on severely as children. I have seen almost no individuality. Many replies begin, or contain the words "I agree with.."

Heaven help you if you ever need to debate anyone in a one on one conversation.
True, this is a forum and its really hard to have a real conversation but still you should try it sometime.

As difficult as it may seem, there are those who are self reliant enough to not lean on others. You will almost never hear me say "You are wrong", "I agree with.." or worse, use someones name to single them out to prove a point.

? quote:
Take this with a grain of salt if you like. Ignore it if you want. But it is an objective observation.


My words exactly.
With that, I bid you all good night.



There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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 Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Mon Oct 31st at 4:50am 2005

You should bid us goodnight a la Holden Caulfield.




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 Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Nickelplate on Mon Oct 31st at 4:54am 2005

Underdog. Seriosuly man, You need to read some of the past trheads and get a feel for it. Crono and I DISAGREE on most EVERYTHING...

Just because someone agrees with someone else doesnt mean that it's not THIER own opinion.

Here's something we can all agree upon: You're a grump.




I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



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 Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Crono on Mon Oct 31st at 4:56am 2005

I agree.


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Mephs on Mon Oct 31st at 5:24am 2005

? quote:
With the herding instinct you guys display, I almost imagine that you were picked on severely as children. I have seen almost no individuality. Many replies begin, or contain the words "I agree with.."


Yes but it saves typing out the exact same thing that someone else has possibly worded better. There aren't too many sides to this really, and in my humble opinion voicing dismay at cradle to grave surveilance and its abuses shows more individuality than being an advocate for something decided for your the good of everybody. Other than stopping us from cracking each others skulls open now and again governments should really butt out of peoples lives.

Some people might feel better knowing that everyone is being watched carefully, but once a government has that level of control over the population bad things happen to democracy. Two words: McCarthy Witchhunt (or is witchunt 2 words?) <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

*puts on his tinfoil hat to keep 'them' stealing his thoughts and sits in a corner...




Quote
 Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Underdog on Mon Oct 31st at 6:05am 2005

? quote:
Underdog. Seriosuly man, You need to read some of the past trheads and get a feel for it. Crono and I DISAGREE on most EVERYTHING...

Just because someone agrees with someone else doesnt mean that it's not THIER own opinion.

Here's something we can all agree upon: You're a grump.

Its Gramps, not grump you silly hillbilly. And you a spelling freak. The problem is, last time I checked conversations generally run both ways. To hear you all talk, its what you say and my white noise. It seems to me that your station is a bit off because you cannot fully grasp a word I am saying. If that comes off grumpy, get over it as its a bit old after the first 10 or 12 "I agree withs" Call it what you will but it seems an awful lot like you are vindicating what you say at my expense. If thats wrong, oh well I have been wrong before and probably will again. In the end however, How I read almost every reply was "your rights are yours only so long as no one else's imposes upon them then its ok to squash them" cause thats exactly what you've been doing to me every time you don't acknowledge my point of view as valid. Not that I am right but valid. Now, either we have a continued conversation, or we have a herd. I do not converse with cows so it might be best if you consider that. Assuming you want to of course.

(I used the spell checker and about to post but the window bunched up all my words into one endless line. If it stays that way, its NOT my doing)

[edit] Sorry my words are all bunched. Its not worth seperating them again. Stupid spell checker.

I'm off to bed, perhaps the herd will have dispersed by morning.


There is no history until something happens, then there is.



Quote
 Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by satchmo on Mon Oct 31st at 6:08am 2005

Oh, gooey. Things are getting juicy.

Boy, I love watching my loved ones bickering.

Can't we just all get along? <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">



"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



Quote
 Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Nickelplate on Mon Oct 31st at 6:26am 2005

Underdog-

I'm not doing anything at your expense. and perhaps you could start making a little more sense or explaining yourself better since you want to be understood.

Seek first to understand, then to be understood.

I'm not a cow. I pay attention to what other say and I present my side whether it agrees with others or not, as you can see by my anti-abortion, premarital sex, gay sex, evolution, etc and pro-creationism-and-Christianity attitude that has been posted time and time again in this forum. I don't waver or simply agree for any reason. I agree when my beleifs or opinions agree.

i'm probably one of 5 Christian Conservatives in here. You'll notice everyone knows that.

Sorry, if you think I am being mean, or something. Just take a time out, chill. and come back with a clear head. Anger clouds judgement.. and spelling too




I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



Quote
 Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Underdog on Mon Oct 31st at 11:16am 2005

? quote:
Sorry, if you think I am being mean, or something. Just take a time out, chill. and come back with a clear head. Anger clouds judgement.. and spelling too



You took everything I said tonight and reduced it to this one small post. That you can reduce an entire night to, "He's upset?"

Do you have any idea how that looks?


Have a nice day.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.




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