U.S. Passport
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Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Underdog on Sun Oct 30th at 7:34pm 2005


? quoting MoneyShot
Oh come on, lets not over react here.. My god.

I get the feeling that many around here just don't talk slow enough for you. You have all day, why don't you re-read the thread then get back to us when you are up to speed.

Since your reply had no relevancy on the discussion, I can only determine that you are indeed lost.

Thanks for your time.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Sun Oct 30th at 8:12pm 2005


? quote:
People like you sound like people of old who were scared of inoculations. Yes people died sometimes but the benefit of saving one life? How can you place a price on that.


So as long as at least one person is helped, it doesn't matter how many are harmed?




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Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Underdog on Sun Oct 30th at 8:16pm 2005


? quoting Addicted to Morphine


So as long as at least one person is helped, it doesn't matter how many are harmed?

You know, I was in fear of being over-simplistic but since you seem to be setting the standard I no longer have that feeling.

Thanks.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Nickelplate on Sun Oct 30th at 8:24pm 2005


? quoting Underdog
? quoting Addicted to Morphine


So as long as at least one person is helped, it doesn't matter how many are harmed?

You know, I was in fear of being over-simplistic but since you seem to be setting the standard I no longer have that feeling.

Thanks.

Dang Underdog, Whats with the mestruation??? Ppl happen to disagree with you. Perhaps you need to take a time out?




I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



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Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Sun Oct 30th at 8:51pm 2005


It's alright Nickel, I can deal with salty dogs

@ UD: Seriously though, that's what you said. I didn't oversimplify anything, I just restated your argument.

Also -- as far as your "the proof is in the pudding" argument, how often are governmental actions repealed? I don't have any figures but wouldn't it be worth considering that once something is through the door its through for good? I mean, how likely is the government going to trash a multi-million dollar operation like putting cameras on every corner or pulling the DNA from every citizen once they've spent the money and taken the time?

Also -- I don't know how you can argue that all these things are inevitable and there's no use fighting it. It's inevitable if everyone is unquestioning of the actions of the government.

Like Doc said, its our role as true patriots to question everything the government does. This doesn't mean we have to disagree with everything, but we should analyze objectively.

I think mazemaster's point that people are fallable is an important one, because honestly what is a government if not a collection of people? You said this way of thinking was just him choosing to be miserable, whereas you were choosing to be optimistic. I think its worth considering that perhaps you're being optimistic and he's being realistic.




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Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Nickelplate on Sun Oct 30th at 9:03pm 2005


? quoting Addicted to Morphine
It's alright Nickel, I can deal with salty dogs

I wanna know who's going around licking dogs to see which ones are salty...




I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



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Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Sun Oct 30th at 9:06pm 2005


http://www.saltydog.com/legend/



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Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Underdog on Sun Oct 30th at 9:09pm 2005


I'm sorry but if thats all either of you got out of my posts then it really creates no incentive to continue discussing it now does there?

I mean really, one of you thinks I'm mad, when all I did was state a reference point and the other wants badly to agree with Mazemaster despite the fact that I mentioned that there is no perfect organizations.

Obviously, you both are attempting to prove your point about infallible humans by being one, or at least you think you are.

Sorry, but I see no point in continuing if that how you determine right from wrong, or truth from falsehood.

I am not pissed,upset or on the rag.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Sun Oct 30th at 9:24pm 2005


The fact that all organizations are fallible doesn't justify their actions.

You threaten your withdrawal from discussions and insult my intelligence ("I'm sorry but if thats all either of you got out of my posts then it really creates no incentive to continue discussing it now does there?"). Why not just point out where I'm misguided or incorrect, instead of calling me fallible and cutting off the dialogue?

Obviously, I have yet to see the wisdom of your perspective, but it isn't because I'm not trying.

You say: "Obviously, you both are attempting to prove your point about infallible humans by being one, or at least you think you are. Sorry, but I see no point in continuing if that how you determine right from wrong, or truth from falsehood."
I was a little confused, how do we determine right from wrong, or truth from falsehood? Is it by being a fallible human being? Because that didn't make any sense to me...




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Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Underdog on Sun Oct 30th at 10:20pm 2005


I realize at this particular moment, there are no verbal members on my side of this discussion but how would you feel if I continuously said "Well I think so and so has the right of it and.."

Is it not within you to have a discussion without making it personal? Now I realize also that for at least one post Mazemaster made it so, but in the end we both felt badly and I assume we both intended to begin again from scratch. At least I thought so.

Now here we are with you back tracking to what happened before Maze and I amended our mistake by making it personal again. Why?

Sure, Nickel seems to think that I am upset for some reason because I posted oddly. Thats his misconception not mine. I was speaking from the heart. I honestly felt that "I" was being overly simplistic in my view, and then you better me by being even more so. Now I don't feel quite so badly.

To answer your question:

? quoting Addicted to Morphine


So as long as at least one person is helped, it doesn't matter how many are harmed?

Well it would depend largely upon what level of help you were referring to. If someone was helped by getting a tax break, or their lost puppy was found, then no. But if a killer was found, even only one, then yes I'd have to say it counted as a good thing.

I am not willing to brandish numbers with you. I am not willing to say something stupid like "Do you realize how far medicine advanced when the Germans killed all those Jews" just because its true. Not all ends justify the means. Yes medicine advanced, but I feel we could have eventually gotten the same results without attempting genocide.

So, stop splitting hairs by attempting to simplify my comment into meaningless jabber.

You may not agree with me, but its not meaningless.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Sun Oct 30th at 11:17pm 2005


Meaningless jabber?

If that's all you think I'm bringing to the table I can see why you're disagreeing with me.

I'm not making this personal. I don't see any personal attacks in any of my posts. I haven't called you names, or made any derogatory comments. I've only dealt with the contents of your responses.

If anything, you're insulting my intelligence. You probably don't think you are, but when you say things like "I'm sorry but if thats all either of you got out of my posts then it really creates no incentive to continue discussing it now does there?" it puts the blame on me (for being unable to see your intent / meaning clearly in what you've written) for what you see as a failure in the discussion.

To be honest, this debate has taken so many turns and digressions that I can't keep it straight. I think I need a fresh start with a single point or facet of the argument to discuss. I'm not sure where we should start. Do you have a specific idea we can discuss?




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Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Underdog on Sun Oct 30th at 11:51pm 2005


? quoting Addicted to Morphine
Do you have a specific idea we can discuss?

Yes, names. Mine is Jonathan. Nice to meet you. I prefer rice instead of noodles and think there is no God. However, if there were one he must have a sense of humor as anyone who has seen the platypus would agree.

Now, I think we can discuss anything between rice and God. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

I would recommend that if you want to discuss things with me in the future, try not to key in on any one portion. I had some pretty nifty comments in there.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Sun Oct 30th at 11:58pm 2005


Well met Jonathan, I'm Tom. I actually prefer noodles (everything from soba to spaghetti), but fried rice is pretty damn good. I know we can't prove the existence of non-existence of God, but I don't think He exists either.

As far as U.S. Passports, I'm pretty much done with this discussion, I'm too tired to think right now. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">




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Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by satchmo on Mon Oct 31st at 12:03am 2005


Ahh, only if Orph is here now.

I think the discussion has fallen apart. Apparently, people's perspective has more to do with their fundamental values, and no one is likely to change their values based on a forum discussion.

Therefore, I think we should drop the subject and let the thread die quietly (even though I started it). That would be for the better.




"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



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Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Underdog on Mon Oct 31st at 12:17am 2005


But?!?! I really do like rice.

As to the subject at hand. I believe that things will happen. Its up to each of us to deal with those events as best we can. True, discussing them in a simple forum atmosphere will not really alter anything, nor anyones perspective on such events.

I see things in this manner. You may expand upon them in almost any way you wish as long as you keep your thoughts to yourself. It truly is not your place to decide if I am living my life immorally or amorally.

This is how I view life. If one knows that to do something that in so doing it they may come to harm, then don't do it. In other words, if you are gay, do not go into a redneck bar and proclaim your freedom to be such. If you know that poking a sleeping bear will get you mauled do not poke it and so on and so on, etc.etc. (be aware that any example I use is purely for example purposes and in no way denotes my belief that such events should happen)

Yes, I realize that this is a weird way to view life but when push comes to shove, what can one person really do but keep your head down and push ever onward.

On a side note, I had home made chicken soup tonight, what did you have for supper?




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Nickelplate on Mon Oct 31st at 12:21am 2005


oh.. thank you....


I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



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Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Underdog on Mon Oct 31st at 12:26am 2005


? quoting Nickelplate
oh.. thank you....

Somehow I get the feeling that you were answering in your rap thread, but it somehow got posted here, as it simply doesn't fit at all.

Perhaps it would be best not to have two windows open at once?




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by satchmo on Mon Oct 31st at 12:58am 2005


Microwaved frozen Chinese food and soy milk. I am lactose intolerant.


"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



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Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Underdog on Mon Oct 31st at 1:02am 2005


? quote:
Microwaved frozen Chinese food and soy milk. I am lactose intolerant.


You poor thing. That medicine to help eat dairy products not help you?
I cannot imagine not being able to eat dairy....especially Steak. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/heee.gif">



There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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Re: U.S. Passport
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Mon Oct 31st at 3:39am 2005


I often wondered what the point was to arguing online. I realized today that even if no one ever changes their opinions online, it's beneficial for both of them to have to think through their positions and articulate their points. Even if no one is swayed or changed, its self-enriching to have to present and defend your own beliefs. Oftentimes we talk about issues that I've never put a lot of thought into, or perhaps only had a gut-reaction. After discussions online I'm usually much clearer on where I stand on issues.





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