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Xbox 360? Whats the hipe?
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 Re: Xbox 360? Whats the hipe?
Posted by half-dude on Tue Nov 1st at 9:28pm 2005

OK, now some of you that know a little more about it may say Im crazy but I am loyal to the PC and I hate consoles. Anyway today some kid at school was blabbering about how great the Xbox 360 will be so I said "and why is that?" So then he went on talking about how the worlds are alive and you can see every blade of grass bla bla bla. But what really pissed me off is that he said that the Xbox 360 will surpass any computer!

Truth is that the computers, which BTW are the founders of the gaming industry, have had the same graphics or even better ever since HL2 and D3 came out. In my mind it's only up hill from there as more and more games are coming out?using these new engines and even improving them.

An example of how these graphics?is the famus

"You can see every blade of grass

Well the truth is that Brothers in Arms uses the same grass effects as all?the Xbox games. All they are are flat pictures of grass layered on top of each other!??

So I guess it down to this, is'nt it just that the Xbox 360 just revolutionary in the console world? I mean its not better then PCs.




Yes I spell bad, but remimber Mighty are the stupid.

Check out my drawings at http://half-dude.deviantart.com/



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 Re: Xbox 360? Whats the hipe?
Posted by azelito on Tue Nov 1st at 9:33pm 2005

Consoles will never surpass the computers when it comes to graphics, as long as you got the latest stuff.
Nothing more to it than that really...



"Azelito, stop being a f**king bitch. All I see you do is complain and insult people in your recent posts. We don't care, go find a razor you emo pansy..." -Windows98



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 Re: Xbox 360? Whats the hipe?
Posted by Crono on Tue Nov 1st at 10:00pm 2005

Well, the graphics could be better than what's currently out, but considering the life span of a console, of course better hardware will come out frequently for a computer.

Something else you should note is that a console is a computer. In fact, when talking about the world of Xbox, that's quite literal. The Xbox is a modified x86 architecture computer (same architecture as most people are using on their home PCs). The 360 is a modified G5 architecture (I think the name is L68? Is mac still going by that?), I believe.

When it comes to "better graphics", you also have to realize that a console is dedicated. A home computer isn't.

It would be nice if game developers started using non-DX implementations so there wouldn't be this crutch of needing windows to run. If they did that, there could easily be an option to reboot the computer and boot straight into the game. There would be a pretty big increase in available resources. Maybe not in the realm of video, but, many other things could run faster.

On top of this, a home computer can have new hardware added, and hopefully that physics chip will be a godsend and not some gimmicky add on.

There are also many tricks used for consoles ... I know Xbox has the ability to output at HD resolutions, but, remember a television is only 640 x 480. Which is less work than rendering at much higher resolutions. Another thing that makes consoles look "better", is that a television really makes things look good.
Seriously, hook your computer output to a TV sometime and play some games they'll look f**king fantastic.

Ignore people who blinding say something is better ... especially because the damn thing isn't out and most of the "console war" fighters aren't very honest about their machines abilities. image

This, however, doesn't mean you should hate consoles. I love them. As I love my computer. There is no reason you can't love both. image

(Although, I should note, that consoles technically came first, with Magnavox's system ... well before people had home computers image)


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: Xbox 360? Whats the hipe?
Posted by satchmo on Tue Nov 1st at 10:12pm 2005

Unless the Nintendo Revolutionary game controller changes everything, I will never get used to playing shooters using a console controller. I just can't imagine those controller can beat the agility of the keyboard/mouse combo.

This strictly applies to FPS only, but that's the only type of game I play. So consoles don't interest me at all. My friend wanted to give me a Sony PS2 (for free), but I declined.

Besides, the games on consoles aren't moddable. I want all the versatility of the PC.




"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



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 Re: Xbox 360? Whats the hipe?
Posted by azelito on Tue Nov 1st at 10:41pm 2005

? quote:
remember a television is only 640 x 480.
...
Seriously, hook your computer output to a TV sometime and play some games they'll look f**king fantastic.

I've got my 25" or 28" (can't remember) widescreen TV plugged to my computer and it goes all the way to 1024x768 but when my comp sends out a higher resolution than that the TV screen zooms in and follows the mouse movement.
I use the TV for speakers, I'm too cheap to buy a real pair, and for watching movies, but also for games now and then. It is true that things look better on a TV. Mostly games I can play with my gamepad though since it's a bitch using the keyboard in front of the TV. Second time around I finished HL2, I sat down in front of the TV with my keyboard and mouse on a small table in front of me though. It was cool. : )



"Azelito, stop being a f**king bitch. All I see you do is complain and insult people in your recent posts. We don't care, go find a razor you emo pansy..." -Windows98



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 Re: Xbox 360? Whats the hipe?
Posted by satchmo on Tue Nov 1st at 11:44pm 2005

What about a wireless keyboard and mouse? That would be the perfect setup for the TV set.


"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



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 Re: Xbox 360? Whats the hipe?
Posted by gimpinthesink on Wed Nov 2nd at 12:54am 2005

? quote:
Unless the Nintendo Revolutionary game controller changes everything,


That controler looks bloody amasing when i first saw it I just thourght it was some remote. But a few weeks ago I read a article about it amd it has sensors all over it and gyro-thingamagigs (carnt remember the name of them) that sence movement so you can turn around and the bloke on screen will turn round. I saw one game for it where it showd some bloke playing the drums with two controlers.

One thing I m not to sure about is the addons for it as I recon they will be priced at about as much as the controller.



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 Re: Xbox 360? Whats the hipe?
Posted by half-dude on Wed Nov 2nd at 1:07am 2005

Well yea I guess I can't say I hate consoles, It just feels like Im the only person in my school who plays on a PC. So I have to sit around and listen to people brag about the Xbox 360 when I KNOW that it graphics that it has is the same I've been playing for a year now. So when they go and say its better then a computer it just pisses me off so much.

Crono:

what do you mean by an "architecture computer?" and BTW what your saying is that the difference between a PC and a console is that a PC has a desktop and stuff right? If so, that's one of the best things I love about computers. Not only can you play the games but you can also go on the Internet, keep your games updated, download mods for even longer game life, and make your own mods. With a console you play the game get bored of it and thats it, doesn't sound fun to me.?




Yes I spell bad, but remimber Mighty are the stupid.

Check out my drawings at http://half-dude.deviantart.com/



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 Re: Xbox 360? Whats the hipe?
Posted by gimpinthesink on Wed Nov 2nd at 1:20am 2005

I've been listening to people saying that the pc's crap and consoles are better since about 95 and it wont stop cos they dont care about pcs.

and by "architecture computer" he means its a pc but slitly modified as the non 64bit processorrs are the x86 architecture (way all the thingys get printed onto the die (someone will put it a better way than that im sure)).



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 Re: Xbox 360? Whats the hipe?
Posted by satchmo on Wed Nov 2nd at 2:03am 2005

? quote:
The Xbox is a modified x86 architecture computer

Dude, you can't seriously consider yourself as a geek if you misquoted Crono. x86 architecture is the processor design. You've broken up his sentence into non-sensical fragments so it doesn't even make any logical sense.

It's like picking up the mouse and tapping it on the screen and calling it "double-clicking". It's something that a nerd would never do.




"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



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 Re: Xbox 360? Whats the hipe?
Posted by Gorbachev on Wed Nov 2nd at 2:08am 2005

I own somewhere around 10 consoles/handhelds. And I couldn't be less hyped about the next gen, at least as far as Sony and MS go. It's gone the same as all mass media these days. The lone gem in a heap of garbage. I remember the days of actually wanting almost all the games on the wall, not not wanted them even if they were free.




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 Re: Xbox 360? Whats the hipe?
Posted by Windows 98 on Wed Nov 2nd at 2:43am 2005

Don't know about you guys but use the keyboard mouse hook up for Xc**k whenever possible.



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Nickelplate is my dad



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 Re: Xbox 360? Whats the hipe?
Posted by Nickelplate on Wed Nov 2nd at 3:19am 2005

I've been hearing the same thing "Consoles are WAY better than PC!!" and then they'll directly quote the press-released specs on how many bits the x-box graphics have as compared to a NORMAL computer. Then I've asked them what a bit means and they don't know, so It's never really bothered me as much as the fact that they are COMPLETE mediawhores when it comes to what they think of PC vs. Console. I've actually never owned a console unless you count a gamboy for about a ye

ar and a Nintendo for about a week. It's been computers since like 1987 when I was a weeee lad!




I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
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 Re: Xbox 360? Whats the hipe?
Posted by Crono on Wed Nov 2nd at 3:28am 2005

Well you're all ... mis-informed. smiley

X86 is the architectural standard for the most common computers. It's just a definition of how the system should work. Like, how memory is dealt with ... and what types of BUS' to have ... um ... should define something about the class of processor instruction sets (I'm pretty sure X86 uses CISC).

Satch, yes and no. X86 is generally used for the entire 'system', CPU architecture can vary, usually based on instruction set and data types available. The X86 originally had a processor design that went by the same architectural name, but, also IA32. They updated the architecture design of the CPU, mostly by messing with instruction and such, and the current 32-Bit processors are Y86. I don't know what AMD classifies their 64-bit chips. They could possibly still be in the Y86 family, I KNOW instructions didn't change that much, they probably just added some, but considering instruction sets have been added for quite a long time. (MMX anyone?)

Anyway, ignore what I said, if you like. I was just commenting on how the Xbox (1) is the same thing you're using to read this with ... unless you're using a Mac, SPARC, Palm, Pocket PC, or PSP to read this ... Or a server of some sort.

If there's anything else you want explained, feel free to ask. Some of these questions I might have to crack out my hardware book for though. I didn't remember the CPU architecture name for X86. image


[Update]
Nickel, totally. smiley

They give you that look as to say, "I watch the news, so I'm more informed than you".


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: Xbox 360? Whats the hipe?
Posted by Windows 98 on Wed Nov 2nd at 3:32am 2005

? quote:
Well you're all ... mis-informed.

X86 is the architectural standard for the most common computers. It's just a definition of how the system should work. Like, how memory is dealt with ... and what types of BUS' to have ... um ... should define something about the class of processor instruction sets (I'm pretty sure X86 uses CISC).

Satch, yes and no. X86 is generally used for the entire 'system', CPU architecture can vary, usually based on instruction set and data types available. The X86 originally had a processor design that went by the same architectural name, but, also IA32. They updated the architecture design of the CPU, mostly by messing with instruction and such, and the current 32-Bit processors are Y86. I don't know what AMD classifies their 64-bit chips. They could possibly still be in the Y86 family, I KNOW instructions didn't change that much, they probably just added some, but considering instruction sets have been added for quite a long time. (MMX anyone?)

Anyway, ignore what I said, if you like. I was just commenting on how the Xbox (1) is the same thing you're using to read this with ... unless you're using a Mac, SPARC, Palm, Pocket PC, or PSP to read this ... Or a server of some sort.

If there's anything else you want explained, feel free to ask. Some of these questions I might have to crack out my hardware book for though. I didn't remember the CPU architecture name for X86.


You still spelt "sue: wrong <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">



I hate people who tell me that Splinter Cell has better graphics then every PC game ever invented. I ask them to name some of the games with the best on PC and fail to know any games. But that doesnt stop them from telling me Xbox has betetr graphics.



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Nickelplate is my dad



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 Re: Xbox 360? Whats the hipe?
Posted by ReNo on Wed Nov 2nd at 3:36am 2005

? quote:
So I have to sit around and listen to people brag about the Xbox 360 when I KNOW that it graphics that it has is the same I've been playing for a year now.


Thats not really true - when the 360 launches, it will be more powerful than the vast majority of home PC's, and as the developers can guarantee that all the market has the same spec (well, to a degree, if we ignore the decision to make the HDD optional), they can develop their games for that strict platform. No necessity to support older/less powerful hardware means they can push the boat out further than a developer making a game for the PC. Current PC games aren't really on par with the sort of games the 360 or other next gen systems are capable of - UE3.0 seems to be "the" engine of choice for the next gen, and you haven't been playing anything like that on the PC in the past year really. Then of course you have to note the variety in graphical styles that console gamers are normally subjected to compared to the rather orthodox approach PC games usually have. You don't often find games as visually striking as Otogi, Ico, or Jet Set Radio on the PC, which a lot of people find more attractive than straight up "realism".

Don't get me wrong though, nothing wrong with preferring the PC, but there is no reason to belittle next gen consoles in areas they can't be belittled. It isn't looking to be a graphics revolution as some may make out, but the 360 (and PS3) is gonna be putting out plenty pretty games, don't you worry!

Personally I'm really looking forward to the 360 for the games, and because I like their online strategy with Live, controller design, and some of the neat new features (streaming music from PC/usb device into your games as custom soundtracks...awesome!). It's not the most hyped I've been for a system, but I'm hyped enough. Gonna wait for a price drop before I commit though, wait and see that it's all working out ok and the games don't disappoint.




Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net



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 Re: Xbox 360? Whats the hipe?
Posted by Crono on Wed Nov 2nd at 3:41am 2005

Win, I just saw what you are talking about. I made a grammatical mistake: big deal? What's the point of spanning it over two threads? Not to mention I wrote that almost four days ago.

Reno has good points. Nothing beats development time into the ground like a strict standard.


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: Xbox 360? Whats the hipe?
Posted by half-dude on Wed Nov 2nd at 4:33am 2005

? quoting Nickelplate
I've been hearing the same thing "Consoles are WAY better than PC!!" and then they'll directly quote the press-released specs on how many bits the x-box graphics have as compared to a NORMAL computer. Then I've asked them what a bit means and they don't know, so It's never really bothered me as much as the fact that they are COMPLETE mediawhores when it comes to what they think of PC vs. Console. I've actually never owned a console unless you count a gamboy for about a ye

ar and a Nintendo for about a week. It's been computers since like 1987 when I was a weeee lad!

OMG that is totally sounding the same as what this guy Im talking about said. He went on for about 4 minutes quoting the press. I would personally love it if when the Xbox 360 came out it was actually crap and I got to wipe it in his face. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/arse.gif">




Yes I spell bad, but remimber Mighty are the stupid.

Check out my drawings at http://half-dude.deviantart.com/



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 Re: Xbox 360? Whats the hipe?
Posted by Gorbachev on Wed Nov 2nd at 7:34am 2005

I just laugh when they give all these specs that are about 2x faster/higher bandwidth than what the maximum for a PC is right now. As if it were some easily obtainable goal. They neglect to mention 99.9% of it is theoretical and on paper so far. Just wait for the other cutbacks. From what I've seen the graphical jump has been almost nil, and honestly when the controller is almost exactly the same you're not working with much different. I want the days when people actually tried to work in harmony with their tools, not this polyf**k where the games run at 20fps. I can't believe how laggy some console games are, it's disappointing. QA must be blind.

[edit]And yeah, I'm pretty sure the x86 architecture uses CISC processors, unlike whatever it is that Apple's using which uses RISC.





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