Blasphemous
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Re: Blasphemous
Posted by satchmo on Tue Nov 8th at 6:33pm 2005


I know it's blasphemous to ask about a CS question at the SnarkPit, knowing there are many CS haters here.

But being the crazy dude that I am, I am going to do it anyway. I am considering to convert my Justice map to a CS defusing map. There are so many CS servers locally, but no HL2DM server.

I haven't made any CS map before, so I am wondering what is the best site to get started. When I googled, I found a lot of resources for CS, but not CS:S. I don't know how much difference is there between the two.

Any recommendations?




"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



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Re: Blasphemous
Posted by Captain P on Tue Nov 8th at 8:18pm 2005


Why, oh Satchmo, not just start with a fresh, new theme and do that for CSS? From a designers point of view, I'd say, go for CSS but start something new this time. You know you are capable of doing so... <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

About recommendations, I'd say, read David Johnstons blog and his site. The author of dust and dust2 might learn you a thing or two about CS/CSS maps. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">
Otherwise, there are several CSS-specific tutorials around, some on Interlopers that I am aware of. Anyway, brushes and all basics just apply, there's some other entities involved for the gameplay but nothing too fancy as far as I know.






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Re: Blasphemous
Posted by Myrk- on Tue Nov 8th at 8:39pm 2005


I think you should, its a good way to make really realistic situations and see what the gameplay changes to- good and interesting experiment for any mapper.


-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-



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Re: Blasphemous
Posted by satchmo on Tue Nov 8th at 9:08pm 2005


? quote:
start with a fresh, new theme and do that for CSS?

I would love to do that, but there are always the real-world constraints. They are much more difficult to overcome than the limitations of the game engine. I mean, I can't just throw in some hint brushes and fix the issues in real life.

I am working more than ever now, and married life definitely takes more time and committment than being a bachelor. I can't stay up all night to map or play games, because I would feel terribly guilty if I allow my wife to sleep alone in the bed. It's not better or worse, it's just different.

Perhaps mapping would take a backseat to the other important diversions in my life from now on. It's sad to think that it's the end of an era in my life, but it may very well be so.

I can't imagine that once I have a baby I'll have much time to map. It's possible that I'll have to wait until retirement to take up serious mapping again. By then, HDR would be old technology, and the players might not be able to distinguish real-life from first-person games. I mean, the graphics would be photo-realisitc.

On that optimistic note, I'll go back to seeing more sick kids.

[EDIT]: JohnstoBlog was quite an interesting read. Thanks, Captain P.




"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



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Re: Blasphemous
Posted by Windows 98 on Tue Nov 8th at 11:24pm 2005


FINALLY! God, I was begining to think I was the only person that liked CS:S. Personally, I dislike HL2DM. Mostly because the health ration is odd. You can be shot a gajillion times and not die.


Anyway, here is a pertty decent site with source tutorials in the forums. Also, just ask a question and you will get an answer with in the hour.

www.csm2.net






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Re: Blasphemous
Posted by French Toast on Tue Nov 8th at 11:39pm 2005


Indeed there are way too many people that bash CS:S because some yahoos say lol, but it's still a good game.

I say go for it.




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Re: Blasphemous
Posted by Nickelplate on Tue Nov 8th at 11:44pm 2005


? quoting Windows 98
FINALLY! God, I was begining to think I was the only person that liked CS:S. Personally, I dislike HL2DM. Mostly because the health ration is odd. You can be shot a gajillion times and not die.

I dislike it because you start out with the gravgun that I can't use. and I get shot ONCE and die.




I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



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Re: Blasphemous
Posted by French Toast on Tue Nov 8th at 11:45pm 2005


You also start off with other stuff...




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Re: Blasphemous
Posted by Captain P on Wed Nov 9th at 12:23am 2005


Plus the grav gun is quite powerfull in some occasions, but sometimes you just have to rely on other stuff to be effective. HL2DM is frantic, fast and action-packed. I like it. CSS is more cautious because before you know it you're dead and moving out in the open is a sure way to make yourself target nr.1. I like it less, but it has its merit just as well.






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Re: Blasphemous
Posted by Gorbachev on Wed Nov 9th at 1:27am 2005


I don't like CS in general because it never relates to my skill...DoD Source falls victim to this stupid 'even ground' effect because of the cone of fire. If I'm using say a sub-MG, I aim at the head, but because of the cone of fire I miss the majority of the time, and in effect create an outline of the other guy. While they have terrible aim, but because they miss most of the shots lie on the the rims of the cone which tah-dah, is where I am.

It's such a joke. I have no problem with having recoil, but the cone of fire is pretty rediculous.




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Re: Blasphemous
Posted by Nickelplate on Wed Nov 9th at 1:31am 2005


? quoting Gorbachev
I don't like CS in general because it never relates to my skill...DoD Source falls victim to this stupid 'even ground' effect because of the cone of fire. If I'm using say a sub-MG, I aim at the head, but because of the cone of fire I miss the majority of the time, and in effect create an outline of the other guy. While they have terrible aim, but because they miss most of the shots lie on the the rims of the cone which tah-dah, is where I am.

It's such a joke. I have no problem with having recoil, but the cone of fire is pretty rediculous.

Canna getta AMEN-a!!

That's why I just hate those "realistic" games, where they try so hard to make things realistic the game gets to be no fun. Like MOHAA where u cant JUMP or RUN because of "realism" in the encumbrance that your ammo pack would give you. BS... I wanna jump ten feet in the air and have a rocket travel forever to the EXACT spot i shot it at, a la QUAKE3




I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



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Re: Blasphemous
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Wed Nov 9th at 3:16am 2005


I like CS:S because the first bullet on the AK and M4 always goes where you aim.

Anyway -- I'd say go for it satchmo, if you like the CS:S universe enough...




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Re: Blasphemous
Posted by G4MER on Wed Nov 9th at 5:59am 2005


yeah Go for it man.. I also like CS:S.. and map for it..

( I wonder what Blog software he uses - and thats a cool blog too. )




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Re: Blasphemous
Posted by wil5on on Wed Nov 9th at 6:11am 2005


I map almost exclusively for CS:S. Not that I map much, mind.

A CS map and a DM map are quite different. In DM, there is no location-based objective. CS involves locations and teams, and your map should reflect that. Usually, for a bomb map (as an example), there will be two bomb areas. This is not a fixed constant, but two sites generally works better in terms of gameplay. The CT team will start near one bomb site (ie. able to reach it within a few seconds of spawning), with another site about an equal distance from both spawn areas. Each bomb site should have 2 to 3 paths into it, any more or less and the site could be too difficult or easy to defend. There should be enough connectivity that the CTs can check both bomb sites and have time left to defuse the bomb, and the Ts can go to the other bomb site if one is too well defended.

None of these rules are strict, they can be bent a bit. The rules for CS and CS:S are the same, so any general guide for mapping for either game applies to the other. I recommend you play CS:S often to understand how CS games flow. A DM map can become a good CS map, but its rare.

CS:S also has bots, so its easier to playtest your map with a large amount of players. Humans will act differently, but it still gives you a rough idea of how the map will play.




&quot;If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?&quot;
- My yr11 Economics teacher



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Re: Blasphemous
Posted by Crono on Wed Nov 9th at 6:21am 2005


I always wanted to make a map or two from HEAT for CS:S.

If there were (I don't know if there is) some good vehicle support would make some set up for chase sequences through a city or on a highway.

Like ... if the terrorists had to rob a bank, hold off counter terrorists while they all make it to a car and get away. THAT would rock.



Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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Re: Blasphemous
Posted by satchmo on Wed Nov 9th at 6:21am 2005


Thanks for the encouragement.

I have once again recycled the Justice architecture and converted it to a bomb defusing CS:S map. It's actually interesting to experience all three types of gameplay in the same setting, at least I think so.

Unfortunately, the layout is too complex for the CS bots to navigate. But I believe it'll make a good defusing map for real players.



"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



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Re: Blasphemous
Posted by satchmo on Wed Nov 9th at 10:54pm 2005


Addicted to Morphine, would your CS clan take this map for a spin? I would like to have some gameplay feedback, from real players (not bots).




"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



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Re: Blasphemous
Posted by fishy on Wed Nov 9th at 11:38pm 2005


? quoting Nickelplate

I wanna jump ten feet in the air and have a rocket travel forever to the EXACT spot i shot it at, a la QUAKE3

tfc has that, and more. in fact, with a decent supply of concusion grenades and some fine timing, you can even jump the full height and length of the grid.

the models that cs:s offers should make it easier to produce nicer looking maps than hl2dm, as well as cs having a much larger audience. nickelplate was complaining recently, about having very few decent models to use in one of his maps, and my suggestion was to convert it to a cs map, because of the models thing.




i eat paint



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Re: Blasphemous
Posted by satchmo on Wed Nov 9th at 11:48pm 2005


In real life, it's a lot easier to meet another gamer who plays CS:S than HL2DM or HL2. And it's very true that there are a lot more realistic-looking models for CS:S than HL2DM.

Everyone has his/her own style of gaming.




"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



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Re: Blasphemous
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Thu Nov 10th at 12:21am 2005


? quote:
Addicted to Morphine, would your CS clan take this map for a spin? I would like to have some gameplay feedback, from real players (not bots).


If I were still in the clan I would definitely try to get you a playtest. But... I quit this summer. I don't even have CS:S on this computer.

Sorry man. Maybe someone else here has some CS:S connections?





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